Rayya Elias & Elizabeth Gilbert: Sex, Drugs & Hair, All About Women 2015

[, Music, ] [ Applause, ], >, >, Hello., >, >, Hello., >, >, Hi, everybody., >, >, You're, all here bright and early.. Thank you! So much all of you for being here.. It is my enormous pleasure and delight to be able to be the person who can introduce you today to somebody who may not know but should and who you will love as much as I do.. Well, that's, not possible.. You can't love her as much as I do. She's, my very best friend in the entire world, Rayya Elias, the author of Harley Loco., [ Applause ], And I can -- who is struggling with her lanyard. > >. I think they -- > >. Do you want some help honey, > >? They definitely want me to know -- > >. They want to claim you. > > Yes. > >. They stapled it to her. She's, going to have to wear that all day. Rayya is the author of a memoir called Harley Loco. A memoir of -- give us the subtitle. > > Of Hard Living Hair and Post Punk from the Middle East to the Lower East. Side. > >, It's a sprawling story. And we met 15 years ago because of an intervention. Now Rayya is a recovered drug addict and a lot of her work is about recovery.. The intervention at which we met, however, was not a drug intervention.. It was a hair intervention for me that my friends --, that my friends had where they were like we love you, we are about you. We can't look at this anymore, [ laughter, ], Something has to be done. And they sent me to Rayya who, at the time, was living in East Village in a walk-up apartment with her two Pitbulls and her super hot wife like newly married to like this gorgeous Little pixy blonde with her tattoos and her guitars and her motorcycles. And I was like well. You are now the coolest person I've ever met in my entire life. And we became friends. And actually just as a disclosure. We were meant today in order to honour that first meeting., We thought it would be really cool piece of guerrilla theatre. If Rayya gave me a haircut on stage., We thought of this like six months ago, and we pitched it to the Sydney Opera House and to the All Women Festival, and they were nice enough to. Let us do it until last week, when Rayya - and I realised that was the stupidest idea we had ever had in our entire lives. And that the mechanics of it were just ridiculous and that it would involve 15 minutes of a blow dryer going on stage. > >, So what do you think about that Liz [ assumed spelling, ] > > Yeah? What do you think about like transformation and create --? What Like it would just be --, so she did my hair before so you can look at it. Now., It's nice. > >, There's it done. > >. It'S done! [ applause, ], > > And I -- you're all going to buy Rayya's book after this., So I told her not to read from it today. What I asked her to do. Instead, as an introduction a bit to her life, which has been really an extraordinary life., This is somebody who has lived and died in several different chapters and several different versions in really fascinating. Ways. And you know, there's an old --, there's the adage that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, and my experience is that that is not always the case with people sometimes.. What doesn't kill them just fucks them up so much that they're --. Sorry warning adult language will be used in this session: [ laughter, ], lots of it. You're, Australians, I have a feeling you can cope with it. Like oftentimes, you see people whose --, while their lives, haven't killed them. They haven't necessarily made them stronger., And this something we're going to be talking about today is the alchemy of how you do that. How you take --, how you make a piece from the pieces, basically. And Rayya. Does that and has done that better than anybody? I have ever known. She's the greatest teacher of my life and my dearest friend, and in order to give you just a sense of her voice and her life, I asked her to read an essay that she wrote this year that she delivered in New York City. At Joe's Pub., Do you guys know Marieke Hardy, who is on ABC Book Club., So Marieke does this thing called Women of Letters where she invites people to --? She does these nights, these sort of theatrical nights where people from different backgrounds come and they write a letter to something. And the assignment was to write a letter to your stumbling block. And here's. What Rayya wrote and I have a feeling that, although none of us probably have lived life --, although I don't know some, you may have exactly like hers. We can all identify with the spirit of this, and you will know her better when she's done. So bring it. > > So letter to my stumbling block. Dear head, you used to be the worst neighbourhood for me to hang out in, especially when I was alone.. Being there with, you was scarier than walking down Avenue D in the 1980s by myself. It was scarier than being stalked by a serial killer or cornered by a rapist. Being in you on my own head meant that I would do anything to convince myself that I Was a fucking reject not worth the skin that I existed in.. Let me first start by saying that I never feel like. I belong no matter where I am., I'm always plagued by the notion that everyone in the room has earned their seat except for me., They're, smarter, more educated, well-read, better musicians, actors, directors, writers, etcetera, everybody.. Some of the places I felt most comfortable in were gaols psych wards, rehabs, detoxes or being homeless on a park bench.. Those are places that I knew I'd earned the right to be in., And even then there was always someone more fucked up, tougher or even more homeless.. I'M going to start by reminding you head with a story. When I was living on a bench on Tompkin [ assumed, spelling ] Square Park in the 1980's. I was lost.. I had found comfort in a twisted sort of safety in the hard-core drug scene of New York City, and I alienated myself from my good friends and family.. I had basically given up on myself and given in to a lifestyle that I would wish on no one. And you head helped convince me that these things were true.. My sister wanted to reach in and pluck me from this world that was so foreign to her.. She was sophisticated, a woman who had married a doctor had three kids and lived in the beautiful suburb of Bloomfield Hills Michigan. When she came to New York and found me in that park, the dreaded tent city with all the hustlers drug addicts and criminals. She offered to take me to the San Moritz Hotel to help clean me up and discuss my state of living.. I agreed to go with her, but on one condition that she give me money to buy enough drugs beforehand. She agreed knowing. It was the only way to get me there.. I hadn't, washed in weeks, was wearing filthy clothes and had deep track marks on my hands and arms.. I had scabs stuck to the fibre of my shirt sleeves.. I hadn't eaten in days because all the money I hustled on the street was used by heroin and cocaine.. She gave me the cash and I ran to the neighbourhood bodega copped the drugs and met her at Lushco's [ assumed spelling ] a little tiny diner on the corner of Avenue A for a coffee. So I could use their filthy bathroom and do a shot of speedball before getting into the cab to go -- getting into the cab to go uptown.. There was no way I was walking into that pristine hotel without numbing you out head, because I knew what I looked like, how embarrassed and ashamed that she would be, but she would do it anyway.. She would walk in with me.. For me she would do it.. I needed a fix because you had told me to be proud cop, an attitude hold you high and give everyone else a what the fuck are you looking at sneer and I believed you.: Do you know how fucked up that is, As I waited in the room, Angrily, my beautiful sister ran a bath for me. And when I took my shirt off the fabric, peeled off my skin and blood ran down my arms.. She cried. I sunk into the bath wishing it would melt away all the pain and suffering, but nothing at that point could do that, but another fix., So she stood by with the door half closed as I did another shot. Then quietly she gave me beautiful clothes To wear her clothes and fed me room service steak and oysters my favourites., We talked about my life and she said and did everything a person could do to offer help.. Finally, she fell sleep and, after sitting in the dark for a while, I changed back into my old skanky clothes folded, her things and kept -- and crept out of the room.. You told me that I was too fucked up and didn't deserve what she was offering that I would feel way more comfortable in that park bench downtown with nothing, because, after all, as you said before, I'd worked really hard to get there.. When I treated myself badly, you were quiet and when I -- and when you were loud and unbearable, I treated myself even worse.. I would've done anything to power down that boge voice of mine yours., I'm remembering --, I'm reminding you of the story head, because I've come a long way since that park. Bench., I've managed to quiet you down by inviting people into you and divulging all of your secrets and exposing them.. I stopped using hard-core drugs to shut you up, and yet you still whispered.. I even tried those pesky antidepressants for a while to keep you muffled., But after quite some time I realised that you weren't going anywhere. You're mine and I own you.. Yes, I said it., I own you not the other way, around., Not like a piece of jewellery or a car. I can sell or an old piece of musical equipment. I can trade, not even like a family member. I can stay away from for long periods of time. You're, like the weight that I carried around all those years and hated until it made me so miserable that I made a decision to have a healthy relationship with it.. So during the last 17 years, while working on all these fucked up relationships with myself, I wrote and directed a couple of films and received wonderful accolades.. I also made some amazing music with great producers.. I wrote a memoir called Harley Loco and continuously write essays for different publications.. I sell real estate in New York City and have a wonderful, healthy and loving relationship with a gorgeous Swedish woman, who is a pilot, a captain Swiss --, a captain on Swiss Air. Just to be clear. Superhot right And we travelled the world together.. I have friends and family that love me and would do just about anything for me and I back for them.. So I would say my life has turned out really really bomb right. So I ask you head: why is it when I'm asked to do an event like this one at first I'm really excited and flattered, then the fear sets in and your dark voice starts to creep in, like it did years ago. Beating me up with the questions, do I deserve to be here. Am I at a level that I can hold my own on a stage with people that I admire? I don't know --, I don't know about you and I don't know if anybody else feels this way, but the shit happens to me all the time., I'm going to remind you of another story, and this just happened a couple weeks ago. I was invited to a Small dinner party for a dear friend of mine, who happens to be the book review guy for the New York Times., His wife, also a literary genius.. There were 11 people at the table, all academics Yale this and fucking Princeton that [ laughter, ] Boston, Globe. This and film review that.. I think you remember the crowd right head. While at dinner you reared your ugly face and started chattering to me, while they were eating foie gras and making references to literary things that I didn't understand.. You told me that I was the stupidest one at the table.. You told me not to speak, because I had nothing to add to the conversation and if I did ask for explanations, they would know how stupid I was.. So I shut my mouth.. My friend even asked, if I was okay and, of course, and I smiled and said yeah the foie gras was incredible.. She didn't seem convinced, because I was so quiet, but then, when that one really smart guy from Yale started talking about identifying triggers before you do a reading, I understood that., The rest of the table didn't know what he was talking about.. I saw my chance and jumped in with my trigger story.. I told him that when I did my first reading at pianos and read the first and very very harrowing pages of my book, the room was so quiet and then a great applause happened.. This chick came up to me after and said that I should've announced a trigger warning before reading my piece because someone in the audience could've been sexually assaulted or abused, and this was now a new etiquette. Instantly. I replied: honey --. Actually, I said: bitch [ laughter, ], I'm the one that went through that incident, not you.. If you don't want to be triggered, then don't come to a bar on the lower east side of New York City to listen to authors' cutting edge stories. Talk about their lives., She baulked a bit, but then she got the message that she wasn't going make me feel bad about what I just shared about. Myself., The smart Yale dude jumped up and he gave me a huge high-five and the conversation opened up about many things which I was very comfortable talking about: labels, feminism, art, sexuality, race, creativity, all the above.. The rest of the evening was a wonderful experience, because I showed you head that when I'm invited somewhere then I probably belong there. People. Don'T invite me for the things that I lack. They invite me for the things that I bring.. Maybe this is the way we all balance each other out., So dearest head. Thank you for hanging in there with me, sometimes taking a beating from me and vice versa, and becoming a little more tolerant and rational these days.. I always expect a challenge from you and now I'm certainly up for it.. Remember dude. I fucking own you. Love, Rayya., [ Applause, ] Thank you., [ Applause, ], >, >, Rayya, that's Rayya.! I want to start by talking about shame because it's a subject that we talked about a lot and that you know a lot about, and this is about as well. And I'm curious, especially in an audience. That'S predominately women and thank you to the men who came as well you're, very loved.. We appreciate you being here too. And you're no strangers to shame. I know. And I want to --. I just want to begin with that word and ask you to sort of talk about what that has meant to you in the past, where you think it came from in your life and how -- like how you've worked with it. At this point, > >. Okay, you've never asked me that one before. > >, No, I thought I'd just -- > >, You kind of suck dude [ laughter ]. Well, I mean shame is inherent in my culture.. Shame is inherent --. You know I was born in Syria. And I think that it's so --, it's so subtle. Shame is so subtle.. You know guilt --, we all know guilt, but shame is just worked into the fibre of who I am you know., And it is the one thing that you know. I never knew that I needed to shake, but you know it comes from a look when you're two. It comes from a word when you're six. It comes from your sister being gorgeous and thin, and you being sort of the fat little tomboy. And the way when You'Re walking through Sears to look for jeans. It comes from the lady --, the lady who is helping you who says you need to go to the boys' husky section, because you can't fit into a little girl's size jean.. It comes from you know, and I'm just taking you through.. It comes from feeling different feeling, like, oh my God, I'm not you know, I'm never going to be attracted to a doctor, a man this.. I want to --. I want to be the man.. I want to be you know I want to be self-sufficient.. I want to take care of people., I -- so in my family and in my culture and in every culture and I'm not --, I'm not pointing it out as a Syrian in every culture. I think it's so hard to not have shame. > > Uh-huh. > >. You know because we identify., I mean it's so hard to identify with the positive things until you work through all that stuff and get to a place where you're like fuck this, I'm not going to. Let you take me down, because that's the one thing that will take me: down., >, >, All of us. And we've been --. You - and I have been talking about this a lot over last couple weeks, because I've got really excited about the work of this neurobiologist. I'Ve been telling you about this guy Mario Martinez [, assumed spelling ], who has this take on shame that I never heard before that. I felt was like so clarifying about how it's the greatest tool that your family or your culture has to keep you in line.. Right Because a family and a culture are very conservative., A church is conservative., A family is conservative., Whatever tribe you belong to is by nature, -- > >, Even drug addicts are conservative., > >, You've been shamed by you know like, and the way they -- and Sometimes the shame is very explicit, like if you don't tow the line. You are excommunicated you're disowned from this family. Like sometimes it's really violent., Some --, we'll kill you.. You know like honour killings and stuff. Like and then sometimes it's subtle, where it's like. We won't kill you, but here's the language we're going to use.. Oh now that you're a fancy person who got an education, you think you're better than us.. Now that your you know blah blah blah, you think that you're, you know -- and they sort of work. You to try to bring you back in. > > Into the fold. > >, And the way that we try to come back into the fold is through failure. Right >, >, Uh-huh. > >, Because if you dare to leave and do well, that's the biggest betrayal that you could possibly have of your tribe right. Your tribe is like you have to follow these rules or you won't do well.. And then, if you don't follow those rules and go, do well you've really fucked them., You know and then -- > >, Because challenge is everything., > >. They try to you know, and so I'm -- was thinking about. Tell that story about when, because I think this is a very important thing to remember, if you are daring to move outside of what you were taught that they, your family, your tribe, your culture, your church, whoever it is, who builds the sort of rules around you? They'Ll always take you back in failure, but they won't take you back in success right. So if you come back in success, they're going to sort of work on you, but if you come back as a failure, weak and broken they're like come back.. We have all the love for you because -- and you tell that story about when you got clean and your brother was like -- your brother, who you've always had such a hard time. With. > > Yeah. > > Was like finally there for you. > > Yeah yeah, I mean you know we had never really gotten along and then you know I spent years just out there adrift. And finally, I went home, you know defeated and just you know Wanting to get help. And it was like come on back in., I went to rehab a six month everything. And I got on my feet and then, when I wanted to move back to New York, because I hadn't --, I hadn't slain --. You know slayed the beast yet.. I had to go back to prove to myself that I could no matter what drugs not whatever still stand on my own and when I wanted to leave, he -- literally, he threatened to disown me.. He used my mother's cancer at the time. To sort of shame me, you know that I was leaving. And I just remember thinking, oh my God like how could this be possible., I'm healthy. Like. Why can't you be happy that I'm healthy and want to sort of move on and still chase my dreams and --? Now that I have dreams again., But it wasn't that way.. It was like oh you're, back and you're here, and we want to hold on to you and that's it. > >, The -- one of the things that this guy that you and I have been talking about. A lot lately says that the only -- there's like an energy field that you have to use to combat shame. And the one that he suggests his honour, because it's the -- it's the opposite, really. And that when you have been shamed, you know whether, through your Own behaviour, or through somebody betraying you or abandoning you or hurting you or kicking you out when you're carrying around shame. You have to build up a sense of your own honour and that has to be different from perhaps the honour code that you came from. And you have to find your own honour in the world, and you have to build a list of evidence for yourself of The times where you have been honourable and the ways that you are honourable., You have to sort of convince your mind that no I'm a person of honour and dignity., And I want to know where your honour comes from, like where your dignity comes from.. What do you know in your marrow about yourself that makes you still be here with us, > >, Yeah. > >, And makes you still be able to tackle the head that you by your own admission, and we all know from our own look. We all live in a head, that's a terrible neighbourhood to walk around alone in at night.. What is the honour code that you have that keeps you --, > >. I mean my code -- made. My code is just --. Look when I got clean 17 years ago, I knew that I had hurt so many people.. I was 37 years old and for 20 years I was --. I just made havoc and destruction everywhere., And so my code was to be -- was truth.. It was no matter what to live or die by the sword of truth., And I have found that some people can't handle it. Some people --, you know and when I first came around to it, I was like truth. You know fucking truth, man, [ laughter, ]. You know - and I think that that's you know that's the thing that happens when you're sort of trying to attack something that you really know nothing about right is that you go to the opposite side of the pendulum and you become --. It becomes your dogma right. And then what happens is that you start swinging and you start thinking. Oh my God. This thing, truth is really a kind thing. It'S an honourable thing.! It'S the thing that I want most in my life.. It'S the thing that I want people to portray to me. You know., I want to be forgiven.. I want to forgive everyone., I --. You know I want to forgive myself, which is, I think, the most important thing.. So it first started with that. Like Rayya, you've been just an asshole, you've been so fucked up.. Can you forgive yourself for a through Z And it was like? Yes, I think. A couple. Things took a while, you know but -- and they still --, you know and they recur and they recur on a lower level at first really extreme, and you think I can't deal with this. I'll, never be able to live with this, but every time they come Around they're, like on a lighter level., And now you know I just --. I live and die by truth, but kindness with truth, not a truth. That is going to knock people out, not a truth. Where I'm going to assault you by telling you the truth about yourself. >, >, Never., > >, Because I can't do that only you can tell you the truth about yourself.. I can tell you the truth about myself. You know and it's pretty raunchy, some of it. You know., And yet you know when I expose myself like I was saying and that when I expose myself, I ripped myself open., There's nothing in there, but love right., There's nothing left, because all the crap is out. And who are we really We're this? Like point of light and love, and if I can show you that, if I can show you all my shit and like open it up, and you can see that I work really hard to take step by step by step by step, to do the next right Thing you know and if it feels wrong in my gut, then it's fucking wrong, then take a turn. Dude. Don't do it. If it feels wrong. Take a turn., > >! You have taught me more about truth than anyone, because I remember I took an ethics class in college and I remember the professor who had this great Brooklyn accent. He was this ex-Marine. He was genius and he talked like a cab driver in a 1940's movie like he had the greatest and he --. I remember him saying we become liars because he goes your family and society. They demand the truth, but they can't deal with it.. You know, and it's totally true. Like it's such a great thing. Like you're, told constantly to be honest, but the fact is most people actually would really prefer that you weren't you know., Because it's -- they would really prefer that jut tamp, that whatever that thing is. And so, especially, if you're a sensitive empath you spend like --, if you're me, you spend your life when people ask you what you think about something. Your first thing is to lean in and look very closely at their face and try to figure out. What is the answer? They want you to say Right, That's something! I'Ve spent my entire --, I'm like what do you want? I used to work in a in a cafe and there was a bunch of Honduran guys who made the coffee - and I remember this one guy who spoke no English and I would go up to pick up the order to bring to customers and, I would say, Hilario [ assumed, spelling ] is this decaf that I ordered And he would look in my eyes for the answer.. Do you want it to --? Yes, [ laughter, ]? No no like what do you want yes. And that's what I spent my life doing. Like? What do you --? What will be the thing I can say to make this moment right now as smooth as possible right, Which leads to just an escalation and snowballing of terrible consequences right. It makes that moment, smooth. >, >, Yeah., > >, And then it makes your life a living. Hell. > >, Hell., > >, You know, and then you eventually like -- and the things that you've taught me. The specific thing I love is when you always say the truth, will always eventually come out., So the quicker we can get to it. The better. Like, let's just go right to it, rather than delaying something that will emerge because what's your line, The truth, -- > >, The truth has legs. It always stands. > >, It always stands.. Everything else will fall away and in the end you will have to reckon with it. Anyway. > > Yeah., > >, You know so whenever I'm going through like an interpersonal difficulty, your -- and I call you for advice and I sometimes wonder why do I still pick up the phone? I know what she's going to say. She's going to say. Tell the truth: right., Whatever the thing is, tell the truth. Say it as gently as you can, but send that e-mail to that person and just tell the truth. And I'm always like. I can't you know. > > And I hate it when she like rewinds it on me and she's. Like baby. You know, you know you got to tell the truth, because that's what you do. And I'm like, oh fuck, that's right! That'S right! That'S yeah. > > And it -- and it -- and it seems to work. Or like --, and the other line that I love of yours is always that you --, you know my husband and I this has change our whole life. This line., We were praising you for this last night., Keep your own side of the street clean., You know, so that means owning yourself being accountable for your actions, apologising when you need to and making sure that you're tidy on your side, -- that you've done your Work. And then whatever happens on the other side of the street -- > > Is none of your business. > >. It'S none of your business., You know, and so my husband and I do this all the time is our side of the street clean on this. You know if we're in a -- like did we do everything we can do Then the rest of it --, let it go. You're not in charge of how people react to that.. I want to ask you to talk about being a late bloomer creatively, which you both are and aren't. There's a level at which you've been creating your entire life. There's a level at which that I see you now in your 50's, coming into this, blossoming of creativity That you're embracing in such a different way than you ever have. And I --, and I want to bring this up because I, as somebody who is a creativity, proselytiser, I'm constantly trying to get people to make things and to release the things that are in them.. I know that there's a level at which a lot of people, especially women, seem to feel like if they haven't done it, yet it's too late. If they weren't trained up in it. It'S too late. If they blah blah blah blah, it's too late.. So could you just take that away from them? -- >, >, Yeah., > >? The way you do, > > Yeah yeah yeah.? Are you dead, Create., No [, laughter ]? If you're not fucking dead, you've got breath in you, then you can do stuff.. I -- you know I used to --. I used to really really really hate myself for being a creative person.. I used to beat myself up for being a creative person because I used to feel like it was --. It was a nagging thing that just -- that haunted me. Like. Why do I have --? Why can't I be the architect that my father wanted me to be? Why do I have to have this yearning yearning yearning to be a creative person, so --, but I'm not enough.? You know that was my head back in the day., I'm not enough. I'M never going to be enough. I'M fucked up now get out there and create and do what -- you know, be touch and create, and you know and just be a soldier - and that was the epitome of what was in my head, all the time. And since I've been clean, it took a While because I never thought that I could create., I thought all of that stuff came from the angst. That was my life. That was the depression. That was the drugs, that was the darkness and I loved that.. It just happened darkness. It went dark, [, laughter, ], >, > You're in the zone man. > >, I know. > > You're, calling down the spirit. > >, And so you know so when I -- when I started -- when I wrote my --, you know when I started thinking About doing music again, like I hadn't, picked up an instrument in years., And I was you know just ashamed., I didn't think I could do it.. So I would literally like skulk around writing lyrics and trying to play the piano and doing things and not allowing people to hear me., And I had this little four track and I wrote this song and I thought it was shit right. And I recorded it on A cassette thing and you know, and then my friend Barb Morrison, heard it. And she was a producer.. She produced Debbie Harry and like Rufus Wainwright., And she heard it and she was like dude. You got to come into the studio and record this. And I'm like what, But what I've learnt you know and a lot of it --, I'm going to just say, has to do with Liz as well, because I was so ashamed of being a creative person.. I felt like I was a closet, creative person.. You know I had been a closet queer for so long. I just --. I had to be in the closet about something right., So --, but she would say I can't believe it. You do you talk about doing these things and you do them. And I was like yeah., But she just brought the light into -- like when I met Liz. I was like, oh my God. This person has all this light and I was sort of crawling my way out of the darkness, and she talked about creativity in this positive way of, like oh, my God, you're so blessed to be creative., You're, so --. It'S so inspiring to see somebody that talks about things and actually does them., And I was like yeah. I can do that. You know., And it sort of helped me to get a backbone about my creative thing. And then it helped me to start appreciating it.. So now you know my mantra is: I am enough now go out there and do it and it doesn't have to be -- like she always says it doesn't have to be perfect. It just has to get done., You know --, and you know I know, I'm like a shitty everything., I'm a jack of all trades., I'm a master at none. And who care Who is the master of anything right, > >, And would you want to hang out With that person, > >, Definitely not you know. > >, Who is the master at anything > >? So I just you know the only thing I need to master is this, my heart., You know that's the only thing I need to master, because this rules everything you know.. I hope eventually it will rule this. But at this point this does rule like everything that I do. And if I have enough, you know love for my creativity for a person for whatever it is. Then I want it.. I want it in me and then I want it out of me. And if I can't --, you know this is the last thing I'm going to say like if I can't keep it in anymore. If it fucking drives me crazy, like an earworm or you know, if I have lyrics in my head or I hum or I hymn, I got to get it out because it will drive me crazy.. I know myself and keeping it in is not a good thing.. What do you say about the Border? Collie > >? Oh, I always say that owning a creative mind, which is basically a human mind, is a little bit like having a Border Collie for a pet.. You'Ve got to give it something to do, or it's going to find a job to do, and you will not like the job it finds. > >, You know. > >. You know so that's why we make things so that we can keep this occupied. > >, Yeah., > >, Or else it's going to eat the couch. > > Yeah., > >, You know., >, >, Yeah., > > And try -- and start hurting the mailman. Like you know. And you know, you and I are very much aligned in this idea - that, if you're not creating something, you're, probably destroying something, usually yourself or the people around you., > > Or the people around you., > >, You know and that there's a way To be creative without destroying yourself or the people around you., And that is usually, I think, to let go of the outcome which you did beautifully with Harley Loco., And you know she wrote this thing.. You know I was like write this book. She's like how I'm like sit down and you write it.. It'S the only way a book ever got written. > >, Oh she's, so vanilla about telling that story, [, laughter ]. She basically dared me to write this book and I was like I'm not a writer. Anyway go ahead., > > And you did it right. And you --, and I was like just tell the truth: just tell the --, you know how to tell a story. Tell -- pretend you're talking to me.. Tell me what happened. That's what a book is.! That'S, what a story! Is.! It'S! What any work of art is. It's the thing of like! Oh! This is how I saw the thing that happened. - Or this is how I dreamt --. Just do that. And when you were done with it - and it was terrific - and you know an agent loved it immediately and a major publishing house loved it immediately and it happened really fast.. Of course it didn't happen fast. It was 50 years in the brewing and three years writing and then it was overnight.. You know where, suddenly they were like. Oh, my God, we love this.. I remember your panic where you said. I never thought anybody would actually publish this.. I have to go back and take a lot of stuff out of that book. [ laughter ]. So I was wondering if you could speak to that feeling and what happened and like what you ended up doing: > >, Oh man., > >, Because you wrote it without thinking about the outcome, which is how you should make art. > >. I mean. I remember three years of just sitting there with my two Pitbulls in the church house that she, you know made me -- made me go to which I'm still there and just thinking. Okay, this is going to be my cathartic experience.. This is --, I'm going to get it all out., I'm going to be as honest as possible., I'm going to you know and then, when they read it you know I did -- it's funny, because I scaled a little bit back on some lesbian sex. I remember, and I was like: oh I don't know --, I don't know if I want to be pigeonholed, as you know, whatever. And my --, and I gave it to them and they were like. Can we get a little more lesbian, sex, [, laughter, ] And a little more about the music scene? And I'm thinking? Oh my God. I need to take a couple things out. You know a couple of experiences out and they were like. Oh, no, we don't want anything out and I just remember I was terrified.. I was terrified., My family. Might you know --? Thank God I mean I loved my parents. Thank God. They were both gone because, like there was no way my father could have read the first 10 pages of that book. And like he would have died. You know on the spot., And so you know it's just -- and I had to let go of it.. You know I had to just bite the bullet and just let it go and just be like okay, you have to be strong, you have to be brave and you just have to let go of the outcome, because this is your truth.. I mean it's, not a lie., You just --, you put it all out there not expecting everybody to read it, but you know what it's a --. You know I did put it away and you know - and I remember sitting -- having that conversation with you, because I was like crying and not talking to anybody. You know just -- and she was like. Are you? Okay, Like this should be a really happy moment. And I was like I'm fucking terrified.. You used the word I was like. I don't know., I don't know. What'S going on. And she goes you're terrified. And I said I'm fucking terrified, [ laughter ]. It'S like you know, and she just said like look: -- > >, It's just terror, [ laughter, ], > >. It will pass. It's a feeling. > > You know. > >. It will pass. > >, It's just terror and it's actually a really appropriate way to feel. And creativity always stirs up terror, because creativity asks you to enter into realms of uncertain, outcome. And fear, hates that more than anything. And the fear response in you will always Be like don't do it. And the creativity. That'S always a thing that you just have to expect. And I was like oh, oh, baby, you're, just terrified. >, >, Yeah., > >. That just means you made something you know., It's okay, we all are. > >. She makes it sound, so easy. >, > It is., > >. That'S what I love you know. > >, I mean and you do too. I mean this is the thing that you know a lovely friendship is based on mutual need and the mutual need that you and I continually have with each other - is that we're brave in Different ways., Nobody is --. Nobody is uniformly 100 % brave in every aspect of their life.. If they are they're --, I don't know they're, either very, very, very [, inaudible ], --, >, > They're super fucked up [ laughter, ], > >, Or they haven't done any work at all in themselves. And you know, there's been different chap --, like sort of Aspects of ourselves that we've worked on really well to the point that we kind of do have a kind of mastery. And I'm really --, I'm very brave about creativity and I'm very comfortable with it.. And it's really easy for me to communicate that to you. And it's really easy for me to see what you can't see, which is that, oh, it's just terror, you're fine, you know. You've got to keep doing it.. What'S the --, why stop? And it's really easy for you, when I'm sitting at my laptop shaking over an e-mail that I have to write someone. That'S so scary, because I'm telling them an emotional truth and Rayya is on the other line. Saying push send honey, just push send. And I'm like, but they will have a response. She's like they're allowed to have a response. You know. - And this is what we do for each other and sort of you need to make sure that the people that you bring closest to you in your life are those people who help you to ascend to the highest possible potential of yourself.. And I think it's just a wonderful state to be in in middle age, where you attract that you know where you're, not attracting people who are foul weather friends. Who only are there for you when things are -- when things are bad and you are suffering and don't want to see you rise, you know., And I was wondering too, if you could just speak for a moment about how you lost your fear of abundance, how You lost your fear of happiness, how you lost your fear of contentment and peace and learnt to trust in those things and believe in those things. > >. Well, I mean the fear of abundance was absolutely the hardest and easiest thing that I've ever done and that's because I lost everything. Many many many many many many times over., And so I -- you know. I know myself, and I know that if I can stand - and I have a pair scissors in my hand right - I can make money whether it's on a park bench in a trailer, fuck, -- fucking parked in Albuquerque or like anywhere like. I know I can get on my feet., So abundance, just natural -- and having no fear of it. It just naturally comes to me. The abundance of which > >. I was just thinking about the thing that I see you not doing, which is something I see a lot of people doing.. When things go well, you don't get scared. And there's you know you, and I have seen this in people where the minute things start to go. Well: --, >, >, That's so boring, [, laughter, ], > >. They get terrified and I wonder what it is that you have about that that you're willing to be like cool I'll, take it thanks., > >. Well I mean the thing is is like when things go? Well, that's amazing right., But I mean tomorrow, things may not go so well right. And it's just --. It'S a part of --. It'S the natural rhythm of life to have these ups and downs., And my favourite thing is like that middle -- that middle ground, right that, like nice, even wave that you can take a paddleboard on and just sit right and check it out all -- across all The horizons and it's so amazing because happiness is totally overrated, because when you're just like happy, then you know then you're like sad., It's kind of like --, it's the same thing., It's the same thing you know. And that's what -- you know and that's what kills Me. And I've been dead and I've been alive. And it's just -- they're, both overrated. You know [ laughter, ] I'll, take alive a little more but --. You know, but I mean writing. The balance is so incredible. You know. And that's sort of what I've learnt through life.. It'S like everything like don't make a big deal out of anything. If it's --, you know this right here. Right now is the pentacle of everything I've ever experienced in my life has brought me to the fucking Sydney Opera House. Me, you know., And we were walking up here and I said Liz. This is --. This is --. This is it you know.. This is like --, and this is the absolute best experience I could've ever asked for in my life for today, [ applause, ], >, >, Yeah., > >, You know., I don't know, what's going to happen, tomorrow., You know and it doesn't matter., Because if I end Up on a park bench for whatever reason I know I've got feet, I've got a half a brain and I will endure and I will -- you know, I'm a really positive, person., > > And not just on a park bench. We were --. I have to tell my favourite story about you., My favourite Australian story about you. Last year. Rayya and I were here - were at [, inaudible ] and we went to this nature park where you could walk around with the lovely animals. And they're. All these lovely wallabies and we had food for them and stuff., And it was like really a Disney experience. You know like purr little birds flying and [, inaudible ] on the ground or whatever they're called., [, Inaudible ] And we're sort of like one with nature. And it's like beautiful sunshine and she's got a sort of corona of joy and light around her. And I'm watching her enjoying this and she's feeding all the wallabies and she's -- this one big, ass, male wallaby dude comes up to her and he grabs her Prada purse. And she gives him a little bit. But she's got all these other -- and he goes like this and I've never seen -- because I didn't know Rayya back in the day when she lived on the streets. I've never seen --. I didn't know you in gaol at Rikers Island.. I didn't know like when you know you were: -- kicked people's asses. So anyway, this dude, this wallaby. > >, Big wallaby, big., > >. He comes up and he reaches for the bag again and she turns around - and this face I've seen on you before and she goes fuck off, motherfucker [, laughter, ] And the wallaby is like whoa, like literally puts his little hands up like this and he's like. > > He was like., > >, We're cool, we're, cool., > > And he took off.. It was -- and then she said, oh, my God. I'Ve never seen that side of you.. I was like get the fuck out of here motherfucker. And he -- and he --, and she goes. Oh, my God. I'Ve never seen that side of you and I was like what side [ laughter ] And she was like. Oh my God. I'Ve never seen that street side of you. And I was like -- > > Between the enormous beating, passionate heart that you carry and that badass [, inaudible ]. You will always be fine anywhere in the world.. So well, we've got a minute and what I want to do is ask Rayya to sing for us.. Rayya is many things, and one of the things she is is a fantastic musician. Lots of record deals back in the'80s just is fabulous. And she's going to sing a very special song.. I was going to sing too, but you know I only know the words to one song: the Game of Thrones. > >. Oh, oh, oh she's, horrible., >, >. I'Ve been tormenting everybody lately. > >, So I --, because it's International Women's Day and because Liz Gilbert wrote this amazing book called The Signature of All Things. I wrote a song about Alma, Whitaker. And -- because she is heroin to all of us. Pardon the pun and I fell love with this character and you will too, if you haven't, read it. > > Before you go. Can I make a special request: > >? What > > Can you sanctify this space before you begin I've only ever heard you do this once and I'm going to put you on the spot and ask you to do it. Again. Rayya was raised in Syria.. English is her fourth language.. Her first was a combination, -- well Arabic and then her grandmother's language of Aromaic. And -- > >. Oh my God. > >, Once -- > >. What are you fucking doing, [ laughter, ], > >? Will you sing -- > >? I can't say no. >. > To make it Holy and because we're in the Opera House a few lines of the Lord's Prayer in Aromaic, as taught to you by your grandmother in Syria, > >, I'm not religious, but this is such a beautiful hymn. I'll sing. Just one verse. [ Singing in Foreign Language, ], That's it., [ Applause, ] Wow, thanks Liz. > > Thank you., > >. It felt really good. > > Yeah. It felt good for us too., >, >, Wow okay., So this song is called Touch. The Ground. And, like I said it's about Alma., [, Guitar Playing and Singing ]. I love you Liz and Alma thank you., >, > And Rayya. I love you [ applause, ], > >. Thank you! So much. [ Applause, ], > >, Take a bow.. Give me that., I won't drop it.. Take a bow., Rayya Elias everybody.. Take your bow at the Sydney Opera, House. > >! Thank you! So much. [ Applause, ]