"Making Waves" With Gil Dellinger

And using this thinner or thicker, depending on what I want from it, and that takes experimentation, so you can see some little things peek through yep and that's from the dark ground. You'Re gon na see something I'll bet. You'Ve never seen an artist do meet Gill Dillinger Gil. What are you going to do today? I'M going to work from a dark ground, a black ground and I'm going to develop my light in a Seascape, I'm going to show how how to make the water look like it's moving. I'M going to show how to use the light out of the dark and it um it. Then it becomes a really strong value relationship. I'M excited to see that, and and what medium are you going to paint in today, I'm going to paint an acrylic okay good? I generally painted acrylic or pastel or gouache, but the acrylic. This is a Winsor Newton - has developed a new acrylic. No, they have. That does not have the color shaft, but when you say color shift. What do you mean by that? Well, it years it certain to me that when I put down a color and I and it dries it, it dries a degree darker yeah. It'S because it's because of the uh Emulsion that they put it in. However, they've developed new ones and it does not darken, it really is uh. If you want to work into a bounce light or a background light, it doesn't go. Oh I'm excited to see that so I should. I should also mention that you are the uh newly re-elected or re you've been president before, but you're. The current president of the Plein Air painters of America Association. So uh tell us briefly about that. Uh, it's an organization of of about 45 members um. We have tried to choose members who are very active, get along well and paint beautifully. Yes and and you choose and - and I think that's an important distinction - not just anybody can get in you - you are making sure the quality is there right and but there are, there are a number of considerations and of course the most important is how good a Painter is that person is both studio and Plein Air, but also how how little ego um affects each other. So we try to work as a as a unit, a group, and we try not to let any anybody be um that that might not be easy to get along with. Oh, that's great! Well, that's that's kind of a Brotherhood, Brotherhood, Sisterhood kind of thing it is and we have as many women as men, we're uh, there's so many very, very, very fine painters in the country. Absolutely well we're excited uh to to see what you do with it. It'S going to be fun, it is yeah oftentimes, a thankless job being the president or something like that. So good luck with that kind of saying um. They asked who wanted to be president and everybody else left the room but me. But now I I came back wanting to do it because, as I've lived in Southern California and went through some health issues, I now am ready to serve again and they're they're such a fine, fine group of painters, absolutely well. Let'S uh, let's get painting, let's start painting, I want to see you paint uh you and I have have spent a lot of time together in the past, but I've seen you paint, but I've never seen you paint on a black ground. Oh okay! Well, that evolved out of pastels, because I always worked in a dark ground in pastel right and now can you see? Can you see the thing I'm working from which is over? No, I can't see your reference. I have to go back, maybe a little bit. Well, there's there's my reference: okay! Well, let's not show it all, because we want to see as much of the painting as possible and uh a viewed View Painting, and we of course want you to not block it when you're doing it. So well is I'm right here you got to paint sideways, okay, good! Thank you for that. I got a real canvas. I I've toned It Black. Okay. I generally work out of a black ground, okay, um and in fact almost everything I do, regardless of whether it's pastel or um or acrylic, is on it on a dark ground. Because a light is my subject matter, and could you do that with oil too? If I could yeah it's a little harder because um, one of the things you have to rely on is getting getting the interaction between the light and the shadow right away. Um my friend Carol Buller does Works in oil on a black ground. Okay, it's fine! Okay! Um now what I do to start with is I put it. I put it I'm working from a a pastel that I did on location uh here in Laguna Beach uh. I put an orange dot in the middle, and why do I do that? Because it? I can see it and I don't ever end up with anything right in the middle okay I designed around it. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to start I'm using by the way is a great tip. Oh it you know what I've had. I have had um workshops when I said what was the: what did you learn and invariably one or two people will say: oh the orange dots is the best thing so um. This is a a scene from Heisler Park uh in Laguna Beach. It'S a and you can see how the how the black begins to tone what I'm building up. No, it looks to me, like you, have yellow on one part of your brush and you're flipping it over, and you have green yes one of these one of these, and I do that. What kind of brush is that I'm not familiar with that lock, nickel, nickel, again nickel, my nickel and it they have them in various sizes and for my block-ins, that's generally what I use: okay, cool, it's fun, they're, fun to work with um and what I'm thinking Here is that, starting with my focal point, I have gone a little bit big on it, but now one of the reasons why I work in acrylic is because, with this technique, I have to have some drying during the time I'm I'm working so that I can Build up the light, so you asked earlier if, if it could be used for um oil oil, it really isn't as easy with oil unless a person is really good at sparingly. Put putting the oil down, because you see how see what this is doing. It'S creating middle tones, middle values, yeah and it um and and eventually will build to a very strong light. I'M not even gon na hang on foreign, so I use a two. I use three yellows um Naples, medium CAD, medium and uh, um, yellow ocher you're, starting to block your canvas. Pardon. I said you were starting to block your canvas. Oh, is that what I did? I did. I change subjects. Well, you no! You just were getting in the way. Oh oh block, my Canton yeah, okay I'll try to so I'm I'm putting in the light and shadows, but I'm I'm doing them relatively freely. They don't want to necessarily um freeze anything at this point, because the one key to painting uh water is that you that's moving is that it has to be moving and the only way you can paint it moving is fast, because if you try to copy it Down, instead of feeling it down, you are going to get you're going to get stiff water. Does that make sense? Yeah makes sense? You can ask me questions as we go all right. I can talk easily when I work well right now. I don't have any and and I'll watch the comments for questions, but so you see what I'm doing I'm setting up the relationships. Okay in the screen, can you see what I'm working from uh right now you're blocking there you go, but can you see that the pastel I'm working from uh? No, we can't if we could move the camera slightly over that'd be great a little there. We go. That'S that gives us enough of a field work good. Thank you, okay, um! Personally, I'm not very good at just making stuff up. I like it to feel exactly like. I saw it, I don't mind moving things and when I teach I I will move things but I but but I don't I don't change the mood. The mood is the important issue for me. The feeling now did you start out painting in acrylics or a pastel, or what did you start with? Well, I tried early on to use the oil, but I I it was a struggle because I was I was allergic to it and um that might have been from having too robust to 60s era, because I might have, I might have done some damage and so I'Ve never been able to use oil for any length of time, so you're trying to make sure some of that black is going to show through not really you're not, and it's just only show through in the fact that it has toned what goes over the top. Okay, I don't I don't want any black in it. In the end, all right, the black is there for the for the sake of um toning, the darks and setting up something. It'S that it's going to make the light sing so and I'm not going to slavishly state of this uh subject, because this is going to become a painting of its own okay, and I don't want to um. I don't want to stop the power and Majesty of what it what it will become to me. That'S everything the light, the mood um, the feelings that a person gets when they see it, because they've experienced something similar. Now, when you paint in studio, do you usually copy from a Plein Air study? No, I I use digitals. I use Pioneer studies um. I don't usually copy anything I'm working from I usually, if I'm working from a digital. I like it to tell me the mood of what it was I was seeing and then and then move about inside inside that perimeter, with with my ideas, if I, but I would I've never actually or very very rarely would ever do anything that I hadn't experienced And painting on location is absolutely essential in my mind, being able to understand what what we're working on to be able to understand um the relationships, the space. So there's there's a couple of factors I think about. I think about the mood, but but I'm always thinking about um composing, not right to left or up or top to bottom, but rather front to back. I'M always thinking about the three-dimensionality of the space okay, so my design has to be something in which you can enter and and uh and enjoy yourself walking around in that design. That'S an important thing to put down in the comments somebody front to back three-dimensional space right. The design has to be that way, so that you're not just thinking about a flat design, but a three-dimensional design that includes relationships in each part, so that a person can walk through the painting and uh feel each layer. And if you learn to leave, if person learns to use bounced light uh effectively, you can almost describe the backside of something by the way you put the light bouncing around it. So I don't know if that makes sense uh of the cuff, but it it bounce light, is so absolutely essential, reflected light. Now, what kind of brush are you using now? Okay, this my BR, I have. I I have three brushes. I primarily use. I primarily use a flat watercolor brush and I and a a liner brush. I like liners, to drag, to drag textures and I'll. Show you what I mean in a little while, okay, all right, but I don't I don't use a lot of and I lose usually use short handle brushes. I, like them better and when I take them out on location, they don't get the ends, don't get as bent, because I can put them in this small container. So now you can see now outside. I you know when I'm working, I'm almost I'm this loose and I don't take it too far, although when I'm in the studio, as you can see with some of the things that you've shown, I am quite a detailed. I can be quite detailed, but the one thing that I have found over the years can you see what I'm doing yeah yeah? The one thing that I found over the years is that detail does not necessarily sell but mood cells, people. If people come up to a painting - and they say - oh I've been there - I know exactly what that feels like or or remember the time we were in. You know Monterey and uh. Oh remember the light. Remember that one day I mean that's the kind of thing that I'm I'm thinking about, because if what a painting does is it triggers a memory in somebody of something wonderful and in this day and age of uh, of of fast food convenience? We don't take time. Necessarily to enjoy what's in front of us, we go so quickly. So a painting is is wonderful. For that reason, when I was living in Bend Oregon um, which I'm glad I'm not there anymore, but anyway, when I was living in, I couldn't sell paintings there um. They don't remember what I should say yeah when you were living in Bend Oregon yeah. But I don't remember. Oh okay, all right! Well, you know. The first thing to go is the memory. What that may be the second thing to go huh I said: maybe it's the second thing to go. What are we doing? Who am I talking to? I do I forget names very quickly. Now 78 came on me very fast. It happens it does it's either that or nothing isn't it so now back here, how Loosely I painted that into what was already there yeah, because it can't compete with this yeah and I will do some detailing, but I won't. I won't um, I won't overdo it because it has to sit behind so into that I was painting, wet and wet. Now you see that sits back from this right and I have to be thinking that way, all all the way through. How did you learn this painting? Think? Oh, I learned uh well, I went to San Francisco State and in those days in the 60s they didn't teach you anything well. That was the modern art thing at the moment. Yeah, it was, and it bad so much because they were doing realism. There was just photo realism, so you copied you copied, you copied, you projected up and copied a slide and - and I was a student of Robert beckwell - that's what he did and um that wasn't for me. But I got my MFA and then I went um out into the workforce and got a job teaching and that's when I really learned, because you have to stay ahead of your students. I was teaching figure drawing and I hadn't had ever had a class where anybody taught me anything teaching it and you had to learn it to teach it. Didn'T you yeah, so I I had to learn it from books. Well and I had models and of course, I'd always had models, but nobody caught taught you how to approach the model. The only time um well, one of the professors I had at Stanford, maybe it was Hayward State, said to me he was. I was trying to do realism and he said well, I'm not going to worry about you, I'm sure you'll come around well, I I sometimes think that a lot of people adopted abstract art because they just were intimidated by the skill sets that were necessary. I'M not saying all dead and I'm not trying to be derogatory about that yeah. I understand and I think I think that that may be the case with some some people who teach not all people, of course, yeah. I'M I'm starting at a series of videos um in which I am going to teach one class called drawing with paint, and what that does is for people who have started. Painting and love color, but did not take the time to learn. To draw and are are frustrated because they can't they. They can't get past a certain place, so I teach them the principles as uh as if we're drawing with with with pink and it I've taught it before it's a good class people. People need it a lot of people need it. The biggest problem I've found with first for students. Is they don't understand the importance of values? Yeah? How do you uh? How do you get the the sense of white if you're, trying to make that recede? Are you trying to make that white a little Bluer in the back? What what exactly are you doing? Well, I'm working in this is still a little bit wet, so I'm working it into that, but yes, a little Bluer, but it can't be. It can't be too blue, or else it won't, it won't Express sunlight and what I'm, what I'm really painting here is the light on the rocks and the water. So if I get too cold um it won't, it won't work. So, do you put a little yellow in that white or is that a pure white always always? Yes, always a little yellow in the white? A little Naples yellow and the white makes it look like um see that sunlight yeah hitting it, and I don't put as much back here. In fact, I didn't put any, but I will come in and pick up some light on there you make it look so easy, Gill, foreign 50 years of failures. We don't really realize - and this is a thing to put on something like this - that at first it was one out of ten good paintings or acceptable paintings, and then it was two out of 10. and throwing out most of the stuff I did and then eventually You make enough mistakes that you learn how to um, how to use your mistakes by accepting him and enjoying them and then tossing them I used to have I had a when I taught at the University of Pacific. I had a Studio on campus and I I worked there every day and foreign. I threw out a lot of paintings in those days and I used to just throw them in the dumpster. Well, what I found out was some of the custodial staff was stealing them or taking them from the dumpster and of course it was every they had every right to do that. I had put them in there, but I had to stop start um cutting them up. Well to you to you, they weren't good to them, maybe because they weren't as experienced they were, they were fabulous yeah, they probably were but um. I I didn't want them out there with with with my name well they're, going to start showing up in garage sales. Here before long, your shoulder's blocking a little bit, oh there you go well, you see where I'm going. Yeah uh, if you guys are enjoying this, give a thumbs up or an Applause and also share it. So other people can find it and see it and if you're not you can hang up, you can leave I'm not gon na I'm not going to vote for you for president one thing nice about this show. Is we don't do politics? I know and I'm sorry I wasn't being I wasn't doing Politics as much as being funny. I know you were being funny, though: that's fun, so you're you're putting a nice Dark Shadow under there or you were so that really creates the the sense of the water moving over it. Doesn'T it that's right and you see how quickly I've been painting the water? Well, it isn't it isn't quickly. I mean it isn't polished enough, but it is moving and I'm always thinking as I'm painting, which way is the water going so that well the scene like that, though it's it's hitting, rocks and then moving other directions. It'S very chaotic. It can be, but I have to be able to find order in the chaos. That'S what I would say all right so that it doesn't so that the chaos doesn't um. So what are you doing there? Are you establishing some of the rock color? Yes, yes, some of the Rock in the background and and then I'll probably have to tone it down a little bit, but it's not nearly as strong as what's going on up here, so it'll work, but it's important at this stage in the painting to work. I'M sorry, I'm probably in the way um when that, even with acrylic now this is kind of this kind of acrylic dry shiny or does it dry dull? You know this is uh. This is a re. This is the best acrylic I've ever used it. It uh. It dries much like oil, but I use I use various mediums so when I, while I'm working on this, I'm using in it - and I should have should have said this instead of using water - I don't use water. Oh, you don't water dilutes it and makes it uh inconsistent. So I use clear gesso by liquitex. Really I discovered it by accident, but it it will thin the paint slightly um but uh leave it the same uh intensity, all right - and this is a slow drying. Acrylic or is it a faster? No, it's a regular acrylic, it's just. They just change the binder, so it um. So they just you. Just look for Winsor Newton acrylic, it's going to be the one. They don't have two different ones. They do uh in the silver tubes, the silver Tunes hold it up, so we can see it hold it still. Okay, it's called flow. No, Oh, I thought you said: Floyd Windsor Newton in the silver tubes. Okay. Well, when you're Newton is silver tubes, pro pro. Oh Pro, okay, professional acrylic, Pro there's a Galleria and there's Pro and the pro is - is um so much uh much better than you. You know it's just it's just looks it's like working with oil. Doesn'T change. So what I'm going to do here now I'm going to go into one area of this painting, okay into this rock and I'm going to start to finish it. So you can see, then you can see the progression. So I use a little liner. Liner is a long yeah yeah and I I'll load it up and IL I'll drag it, and then I get the texture on the rock that way. Hmm there you go, I don't just kind of picking up some of the highlights and I don't usually paint. I don't usually paint directly, I let things develop and I'll show you a couple of techniques that I use that are used to make things textural or whatever, but here I have I have. I want the texture on the Rock. I want to keep the sense that it's light, the lights hitting it, but that it also has a little crevices. You see you get. This begins to take on a sort of a a rock-like character yeah, and you kind of have to do that after that, part's dryer. Are you doing it wet into wet? It'S sticky. It does different things. It'S best to experiment with it. You know take a rigger and drag it through whatever yeah um, I'm not going to fuss too much, because people will be leaving I'm going to show other things in a minute, but uh yeah. I'M going to be very curious to see how you finish: water. That'S! Okay, that's a tough one I'll do that kind of hard sort of hear from the side. I know thank you for for doing this for us yeah I'll leave that I'll I'll go to the water. Let me think about it here for a minute. I'M going to take I'm going to make sort of a grayish. I remember when we tried to um to do a demo in Maine. You came out well, I remember you that guy came this guy wandered in while we were filming right in the middle of it. Yeah, okay, we had, we had police tape up, so people would come down there and this guy came right into it, got right in your face. That was so funny. So what I'm doing is I'm putting an under lay of with a little blue in it? A little ultramarine blue, a little bit of brown in there to kind of tone down the blue and then I'm going to and the brown I use is raw Umber. I use Rubber and burnt sienna. Let'S I'm bringing this in now differently than that, because I want to show about the movement of water so in in each thing that I'm doing I'm trying to keep in sync with leaving the dark underneath and using this thinner or thicker. Depending on what I want from it, and that takes experimentation, so you can see some little things peek through yep and that's from the dark ground, and I can't I I have not been able to figure out how to do that from a light ground. So this is, I always have if I tried to work from a light ground. I end up darkening it and darkening it until I'm working for the dark ground. So now foreign, we can't really see it. It'S flattering: okay, show us that again so you're taking the end of your brush and just flipping flipping the paint out and then and then so it doesn't look like a spatter I come in and I I alter them with my fingers plot it down a little Bit yeah yeah, I was gon na, say you're going real Bob Rocks on me there for a second. Well I am, did you know Bob Ross was a girl instructor. You would never know it. Would you no, but I I don't mind, making a little Happy Fish in here yeah I use I used to watch Bob Ross. I enjoyed him. I didn't hear much about his paintings, but I just really loved watching him and uh he's very. He was very restful. Um, so I use some of those techniques I make my trees generally with and I'll show you in a minute see how I'm leaving little bits of it yeah and then I'm going to take a little bit of Viridian here, I'm in the way Ooh La La Look at that soften the edges, there's a little squirrel that lives right back up when I was teaching at the University. I always try to keep things light, and so I, when I would come in about oh a couple weeks into the semester and I would have a Bob Ross wig, but it was multi-colored and I would um I would teach Happy Trees, some of them, some of Them thought that it was funny some didn't know what in the world I was doing laughs, it was fun, got ta have fun. Well, it keeps them from being nervous about about banking. You know or growing it keeps them from having fun and then it then it their paintings are better. So when you're painting, when you're painting, flynaire and you're out there by the rocks and that water is constantly moving, how do you? What do you do you just find a moment, and you say: okay, I'm going to imprint that in my memory and just try to do that once one spot, because it all changed what I do as I look at. I look at the progression and the pattern of how they're coming in, and I I so I'm getting sort of a middle idea of what it is. Not I'm not thinking about any particular um band. This is how I want it. I watch it. I watch it. I watch it and then I try to come into that mood as it as it repeats itself. Okay, does that make sense, yep? Okay, because I I uh I don't I mean, but you do have to kind of get an idea. You can't be chasing it. You can't chase it now. Um, you got about 10 12 minutes left okay. Now I twist the brush as I'm going and you're using the liner brush again yeah, you see how I twist it yep, and that makes the if I'm going in One Direction and I'm I'm mimicking chaos, I can still control chaos by the by the direction. It goes so now we're giving you some giving you a random unpredictable marks right right absolutely, but this can't go backwards. These little things have to come this direction because they're moving, so I'm going to now back into behind this foreign. This has to be in the Blues. Well, what do you mean it has to be in the Blues? It'S a little tint of blue. It has to be cool shadow, The Trouble With the Shadows on the whites and it happens when you do snow or whatever you do um. The value has to be correct foreign, as opposed to something that's been added on. So there's a lot of Bounce life that has to go on down in the shadow of water. Do you see that yep, but it has to come it also, even though it's flowing down through here, it has to turn into this flow foreign. By the way, I have two books that people can go online and see one's called confluences and it's uh paintings and poetry, and the other one is called an unexpected Revelation and they both they don't they're, not how-to books, but they are collections of of years of Work, okay, cool I've got your website up on the screen, Gill, dillinger.com, yeah and and the the book confluences, which is the newest one and is, is poetry as well. It'S a beautiful book had it professionally designed uh. Did you write the poetry? All the Poetry is mine, yeah yeah, and we tried to pair them, but they're. Not really, you know, I'm not really illustrating them well, you're, also, a very spiritual guy yeah I am means everything. It'S a lot of. The Poetry is quite spiritual, right foreign, I'm gon na have to get me one of those brushes yeah. I I saw uh Ken osters brushes but um. They look like he'd, been to a veterinarian, clinic and not know the Dexter dog here and and state, take them to a stick and they and and put them in the paint and let them dry, I mean they were they were and honestly. This is true. Two years after he had passed, I had I I had. I went over to paulettes and Oster and and there's where the brushes, and they were still they were not dry. After two years really the paint was so gummed in he was sick. He was such a treat, what a treat he was yeah a treat and absolutely uh unexpected towards the end of his life. He was, he had cancer and he was in bed. I'D go and I'd sit with him and we'd watch Shark Tank and he just loves sharking Heat. Oh I did I did. As you know, I did an interview with him right before he died. Oh did you and uh. I I wish I uh well, it wasn't really intended to be an interview, it was a phone call and we spent two hours on the phone and I I didn't have a recorder set up and I wish I had so I did a special podcast just reading. My notes of everything he said about what he discovered in painting in life uh. He was such a such a good friend to me when I, when I had to leave Bend. I came down here to visit him while he was dying and he and he and his wife Paulette put me up uh for a while until I got my feet on the ground and then um, let me live there and then I moved here. It was the his was the very first Workshop. I ever took oh really yeah, when you guys did that thing in um at the YMCA Camp in Colorado, yeah, I don't. I don't think I was at that one. I don't remember if you were, but Ken was the first one and then I think it was um. Oh gosh Matt, maybe and um. What wonderful! Oh yeah! You know what what wonderful people, what wonderful painters, what sensitive people yeah it just um! It blows my mind that I I have had the privilege of knowing these people it's a it's a blessing. They they are. So you know if you get if, if, if they've learned enough to keep their their egos away, they're, just among the very most loving and uh and spiritually, no matter what their faith spiritually, um uh aware people aware of what makes beauty and dedicated to Beauty. Do me a favor uh Gil, because we've only got like four minutes left. Okay, would you just do a little dance on that right hand corner of that painting? So I because I'd like to see how you get that I can see the right hand corner of that other painting, I'd like to see how you get that sense of texture in there. Okay thanks and then, when you're done with that painting you can uh, you can post it and um everybody'd love to see it. Okay, aiming on my my Instagram yeah or on in the comments on this broadcast. Oh okay, oh yeah this week. Thank you see how I drag yeah I drag and what I'm thinking when I'm doing that is how am I going to unify these forms by dragging and sometimes they'll come like this. You see this color here. Well there. It is only it's a lighter version, so I I'm always thinking about the design in the space and unifying everything. So I'm going to come down in here. I think I know what you want make sure you tell me if I'm not doing it, I'm I'm changing the values of things they're blocking a little bit there. We go okay, so you're getting some darks in there and some different colors in there yeah and then I'm going to come over the top and drag drag some water over okay. This is amazing how rapidly this thing has come together. Yeah amazes me too. You know, honestly Eric. I never get used to the fact that I've had this privilege to do this and that it that that Beauty has become so important to me and we live in a society which is needs to understand what artists see they they. You know you, you know that from your own painting, people need to know um, that there's beautiful things and they don't have to focus on the politics and they don't have to focus on the ickies, which are always around well and that's. Why I'm doing this 310 days in a row is that I, you know everything just got really crazy with the virus and the politics, and this felt like we needed uh a respite, something to distract us. Oh absolutely! It'S wonderful! You'Re doing it 310 days in a row, yep wow. I didn't know that since uh since the first quarantine. Oh, so you do a different artist every day, uh yeah well, some days, I've done art, marketing or some other things, but a different artist every day and sometimes sculpture, sometimes painting lots of different medium and then uh, also at three o'clock every day we're doing uh Samples of the 600 plus our construction videos that we've done oh and that's seen on what uh it's on Facebook and YouTube: uh Instagram, Twitter, twitch, it's in a lot of places so and what's it called so that I don't have a name. But if you, if you were to search, streamline art video, oh yeah, so you go to any especially Facebook and YouTube all 310 days times. Two. In other words, 620 different broadcasts are on YouTube. If you go into YouTube, search, streamline art, video and then subscribe. Oh, I see oh okay yeah all right, I'm not getting I'm not getting what what what you want here, um I've kind of lost it. That'S all right! I was talking I'm sorry! No! No! Thank you! Well, we're kind of down to the wire now so we're gon na have to we're gon na have to why? Don'T you just come back on camera, everybody give Gill thumbs up, and Applause and uh it'll be an interesting to see, but I think I have a sense of what you would have done there, so that was fabulous so step back. So we can see you or get the camera back or something there we go. This has been fabulous. You'Ve inspired us all. Thank you, nice job. I want to remind everybody. You can visit Gil dillinger.com to find out about his books and all his stuff and uh Gil. Thank you for doing all you do you're a you're, a true inspiration. I appreciate it and I hope I have time some at some point can come back to the conventions and do some do some demo demoing, because for so many years I was not well, and now I am okay. Well, you have a standing invitation so we'll just work it out. Okay, you let me know we would love to do that all right. Thank you! So much Gil