How To Formulate Hair Conditioners & Treatment Products

Hi everyone and welcome to our live presentation where i'll be teaching you a little bit about how to formulate different types of conditioner products for the hair. If i could just start with a little sound check, if someone could just type that you can hear me, okay, we had slight technical difficulties with the sound last time now, of course, if you do want the presentation, we have a copy of the presentation in our Dropbox folder we've got the full powerpoint presentation in there. I'Ve got lots of hyperlinks to where you can find extra information, including a lot of videos. We already have about formulating conditioners and hair care products, so i'm going to get started. Of course, there is a little bit of information about the institute. We'Ve been going for 15 years. Everything we do is 100 online, so we're as close to you as your computer, no matter where you are in the world, let's get straight into different types of conditioner forms and again this presentation is available in our dropbox. If you don't have that dropbox link for all of our free formulas and videos, you can just email us info at personal personalcarescience.comu and we can give you a dropbox link where all of our formulas and reports can be found. So, let's look at the types of conditioner forms that you have, first of all, so there's spraying conditioners, obviously spraying being very low, viscosity spray them in they're ideal for detangling they're great to take to the beach. If you want to condition your hair after having a bit of a swim, there's the normal rinse off and of course this is the the type of conditioner that most of you will be the most familiar with. Then there are treatment or mask products. These are leave on products that that you put on you leave on for 10 to 15 minutes, and then you rinse them off. You don't want to leave them on permanently they're, quite rich thick heavy products for repair inc in particular, and for your really damaged hair types and also your very curly hair types. A lot of people don't realize that the really curly hair types are actually very fragile. A lot of times people see this beautiful, full bodied hair thinking that it's it's quite um voluminous and strong, but it's actually quite fragile hair, particularly your 4c hair types, your african, caribbean hair types that really really frizzy curly hair. So they actually need a lot of care, a lot of conditioning. Then, of course, there's the leave-on that you would not rinse out. So the difference here is that they need to have relatively low levels of conditioning in them also low levels of oil. We'Re going to have a look at the full breakdown in a moment, but you're going to see that these types of products they can't feel heavy on their hair. These are the types of products that you you rinse. Well, you basically put through the hair uh and then you don't rinse them out. You leave them in so again they can't feel very heavy at all. They don't get rinsed out immediately and of course, there's bars. There'S now conditioner bars. Now they have very specific formulation. Techniques, so if you are interested in waterless bars, we won't really be covering them today, because they do have very different formulation principles. But if you are interested in formulating waterless bar products, we do have bar workshops again. We do have the link in the presentation to our bar workshop series. They do need to be put together a very uh, very different way to the way you'd normally formulate because they're a solid bar. The idea of a conditioner bar is they're very convenient for travel. They'Re waterless, so that you would just wet them when you're about to use them and then you can apply to the hair and they work just like a conditioner when they're activated with water. So let's take a look at some free videos. We have so again huge list here again, you can contact us for this presentation. All of these are hyperlinks. All of these are free videos with free formulas, just contact us info at personalcarescience.comu, and you can access all of these different formulas and video types. We also have a curly hair cream, which is a little different to what we're going to be talking about today, but just for those viewers out there, especially with either caucasian dry, damaged, curly hair, but particularly for those with african caribbean hair. Again, it's a very, very fragile hair type, so we do have a curly hair cream on our youtube channel, as well as all of these in this list, for you here now again, another different form that we wouldn't we wouldn't really be covering today, because they do Require different formulation principles is your two in one shampoo and conditioner. Now, two in one, shampoo and conditioner is not as conditioning as a conditioner product which we're really going to be talking about today and really focusing on today. Two in one shampoo conditioners are ideal for busy active people with relatively short hair, relatively normal hair. A two in one shampoo, conditioner, isn't ideal for people with really oily hair they'll get build up, also not really suitable for people with really dry hair they're. Just not conditioning enough, but everyone with normal uh and relatively short hair that wants to wash their hair quite frequently. Two and ones are great. But again we do have a video on that that and a formula that you can contact us for not really the topic of today today. We'Re really talking about some of those really deep conditioning products, um for conditioning the hair, particularly for dry and damaged hair types. So what are some of the key differences? So a lot of you might be familiar with formulating your standard, creams and lotions. Your standard emulsions well, a conditioner is an emulsion, but it's a cationically charged a positively charged emulsion. So one of the key things that we need in a conditional formula is a cationic emulsifier. It'S a cationically charged ingredient that helps hold the emulsion together now. The reason the cationic charge is so important is because the hair has a negative charge in a certain ph range, we'll get to that in just a moment, but the hair normally carries an anionic charge. So when we want to shampoo it and clean it, your standard foaming products tend to have that negative charge, it's great for lifting the cuticle, really washing away any dirt or debris on the hair, not so great at conditioning. So when we're making a conditioner product, we use these cationic emulsifiers these cationic materials, because they deposit that positive charge on the hair and also provide that beautiful, silky slippery feeling that helps with detangling and conditioning the hair. Now we need to just be really clear on what a catalonic emulsifier is compared to a cationic polymer, and the reason for this is cationic emulsifiers, which we need to use in our conditioning products. They carry the positive charge. They are incredibly incompatible completely incompatible with an anionic, emulsifier or anionic surfactant. Now, as chemists when we're looking at a emulsifier, we are talking about a surfactant chemically they fit under the one umbrella, so don't get confused with the terms in in our industry. We tend to call those materials that create foam surfactants and we tend to call the surfactants by their chemical um structure. We tend to call the ones that form your emulsions, your creams and lotions. Your conditioners, we call them emulsifiers, anionic just means negative charge. Cationic means positive charge, so you cannot put a cationic, emulsifier or surfactant with an anionic, emulsifier or surfactant they're completely incompatible. They will form insoluble complexes if they're in the one formula. But - and this is where a lot of beginners get confused, you can put cationic polymers with anionic surfactants, so popular examples, gua hydroxypropyl, trimmonium chloride, it's positively charged. It'S a it's a gum. It'S a polymer uh your polyquaternium, a great conditioning agent. It'S positively charged both of these materials. You can put with an anionic surfactant or anionic emulsifier if you wanted, but they would tend to be used in your foaming products and the gua hydroxypropyl trimming, chloride or polyquaternium, or both provide a positive charge to the formula. But they're nowhere near as strong they're, definitely not surface active like a cationic, emulsifier or surfactant, is so just make sure you're really clear on this, and we do actually have that. It'S really important that you understand. We actually have that in the powerpoint presentation, the polyquaternium, our agents and your gua hydroxypropyl trimmonium chloride are positively charged polymers that are compatible with anionic and cationic emulsifiers and surfactants. But just remember that your cationic emulsifiers things like your behemothrimonium chloride, cetromonium chloride, bench ammonium, methyl sulfate and there's others. They are absolutely not compatible with your anionic surfactants. So your sodium lauryl sarcoisonate, your sodium cocolizethinate totally incompatible so just make sure you're aware of that. When you're making your ingredient selections because we do get quite a few emails people or even comments on our formulas, people saying i didn't think you could put a cationic, you know and they call them surfactants. Even when they're polymers, i didn't think you could put a cationic material with an anox surfactant. You can put cationic polymers with anionic surfactants and emulsifiers. You can't put cationic emulsifiers and surfactants with anionic, emulsifiers and surfactants, so i hope you could follow along. Like i say it's so important, it is one of the top points that we have here with our conditioner differences um now. Another thing: that's really important is the more conditioning that is promised by the product. So like a treatment or a mask product, even a repair product, the more viscous it tends to need to be now that viscosity has nothing to do with performance. But it's a consumer perception, a consumer will not tend to look at a low, viscosity conditional product and think it has much conditioning power. Now you could quite easily formulate a totally liquid conditioner product, that's extremely conditioning for dry and damaged hair, but a consumer will have this perception that a conditioning product should be viscous. A deeply conditioning product should be highly viscous. So when you're formulating these products, just keep in mind your consumer perception. It is really hard to re-educate a consumer when their perception, when their mindset is set to thinking one way they will tend to look at the viscosity of a conditioner as an indication of how conditioning it will be so just a big heads up when you're making Treatment products when you're, making your normal rinse off conditioner products for dry, damaged hair, they will tend to need to be more viscous than something for oily hair, for example, and that is nothing to do with the actual performance of the product. It'S everything to do with the consumer perception and that's so important because end of the day, who's buying the product, uh, it's the consumer and if the product doesn't look or feel a certain way, they're going to question its performance before they've even tried it. So just keep that in mind so too, you don't actually need foam to clean the hair, but consumers look for extra foam in their products as a mark of cleansing performance. So, while the foam, really you don't need excess foam to get a good clean. If you don't have excess foam, consumers don't think the product's going to work very well. So these are consumer perceptions that you it's really difficult to overcome. So just keep this in mind when you're putting your formulas together and how do we build viscosity? I will come to that in just a moment, but it is actually your non-ionic emulsifiers that help build that viscosity and reduce irritation, but we'll come back to that one um. Actually, that is the next point: build viscosity and mildness with non-ionic high hlb emulsifiers now hlb. If you're not aware it's hydrophile lipophile balance and we need what is termed or considered high hlb emulsifiers non-ionic emulsifiers. We want non-ionic no charge, they increase the mildness of the product. We want waxy high hlb, non-ionic emulsifiers. We want to build viscosity and we want high hlb as in a hiv of 15 or more so that when we put them in the formula they actually help with rinse off, so it helps remove excess, buildup or or product from the hair. It actually helps with rinsing the product away, so we use the non-ionic waxy emulsifiers to build viscosity to and then that increases consumer perception about how rich the product or how richly conditioning the product will be um and, of course, it also helps with stability, helps reduce Irritation and helps with that rinse off, so they're really really important. Now another thing that a lot of people don't realize uh, and this has got a lot to do with how well a product is marketed. Is that conditioners actually have quite a low oil content? The oil in a conditioner doesn't actually do the conditioning. It'S the cationic materials that do the conditioning the ketonic emulsifier in particular. That does the conditioning oil doesn't do it. In fact, too much oil in your product can leave the hair feeling really heavy and length typically conditioners will contain three percent or less oil. That'S it um and some of you watching now might say, hang on. I thought it was way more than that and that's got a lot to do with the way our products marketed. You you have a look at the label and they'll usually say you know, with avocado oil or jojoba oil or they'll name a different plant or argan oil, another popular one, but it's not actually the oil that does the conditioning now in really dry damaged, hair types. You'D use around three percent in a treatment product for your african caribbean, really fragile, hair types. Uh there may be up to five percent. That'S that's a really really high oil input for a conditioner product. So just be aware, the oil is actually not what's doing the job, but again consumers will tend to think the oil that's in the product is doing the job. So they'll tend to look at that as part of the marketing story, when they're making a selection process um and another thing, that's very different about conditioners compared to other creams and lotion or emulsion type products is the method the way they're put together, because when you're Making a conditioner, you have a really high waxy content, your emulsifiers compared to the oil very low oil content. As i said, most products are three percent or less oil. You. You need to actually process the product differently now in a lab, maybe not so difficult, but in large production vats. If you don't add that oil phase the wax and oil phase to very very hot water, if you're trying to melt it in a separate vat, because there's so much waxy input, you can end up with a wax plug in the vat and you can't process. You can't make the product anyone that's made. Larger production um of product would know what i'm talking about. So the method is crucial. The method is different, so you will normally need to have your water really really hot, around 80 degrees. And then you add your oil phase, which is predominantly your waxy emulsifiers, cationic and non-ionic materials, and this very small proportion of oil that would get combined and that will get added to very, very hot water and then high shear is used. The product is emulsified, the waxes get melted and emulsified into the water phase, while it's still really really hot and then it cools down. So the method is different. It'S not like your standard, creams or lotions, which have you know, say maybe five percent of emulsifier for one of a better. You know more specific, obviously depends on the emulsifiers. But let's say we had that in a standard cream or lotion, you might have 10 lipid phase liquid lipid or oil phase. With your waxy emulsifiers in a conditioner you could have you know five, seven percent, even ten percent of waxy phase. If you want a really viscous product and three percent oil and of course you can't put that into a large fat, you can end up with a very solid waxy plug at the bottom of the vat, and you can't mix product um. So we add that wax and oil phase to very very hot water, we melt and emulsify under high shear, and then we form our creamy emulsion, so the method again method's very different. So what do we put in to our conditioner formulas? What depends again on the hair type? Definitely the drier, the hair type, the more conditioning materials, the more cationic materials and, of course, you can't just put in heaps of cationic materials. It depends what it is: the hentramonium chloride, centromonium chloride are limited by regulations, because they can be very, very irritating. As i've mentioned, you can reduce irritancy by using non-ionic high hlb emulsifiers, and then you can use these cationic materials as well. You can use other substances like the hentramone and methyl sulfate. It'S also very, very popular now just bear in mind things like your gua hydroxypropyl trimmonium chloride, your behemonium methyl sulfate. These materials get marketed as all-natural they're, not there's, actually a synthetic portion to them so just be aware, if you're making natural products, these are not all natural materials, but they are usually accepted by consumers who want more natural products. So again, that that's probably another topic, um and probably you'll - have questions on that after i finish my presentation, but definitely be aware of the limits, some limits apply: the hedge ammonium chloride, cetromonium chloride, very popular conditioning agents that have strict regulatory limits and that's to help Reduce potential irritation, so you have your you: have your water you'd usually use a cationic gum like your gua hydroxypropyl, tremonium chloride. This helps build stability a little bit of viscosity, but it's more for the conditioning benefits. You would have your cationic emulsifier. You have your non-ionic high hlb emulsifier. I do actually have a list. Remember if you want this presentation info at personalcarescience.com.u. Ah, you would have a small input of lipid. You know it is. It is good for the hair to have a little bit of lipid, but this also really helps boost your marketing story. Uh, hydrolyzed proteins are a fantastic addition. If the budget allows hydrolyzed proteins - usually quite expensive, but a fantastic addition to conditioner formulas, to really help with the structure and repair of the hair, you can have other actives or extracts if desired, extracts, preservatives, antioxidant, fragrance, essential oil. Obviously, the way the product smells is really important to a consumer, and now, let's talk about ph, the ph should be quite low, usually 4 to 4.5 maximum, a ph of 5.. Now. The reason we have such a low ph on conditioners is because of the hair and that charge. We want to make sure that the hair is strongly negatively charged and it is when it is below 5.6 above 3.7, up to 5.6, that hair carries a very strong anionic charge and, of course, if we put a positive product on it, like your conditioner, the conditioner Clings to the hair and that's what gives that beautiful, slippery detangling feeling, so we usually make our conditioner products with a ph of around 4.3 for 4.5, really good um, and that allows for a little bit of ph drift. It also means that then the product will cling to the hair and provide that beautiful slippery feeling and detangling action. So that's why you'll always see your conditioners with a low ph, okay, so a couple of other points and again got a nice little summary for you, the more conditioning that you want the product to be the more detangling, the more slip that you want from the Product more cationic, emulsifier, your cationic emulsifier is the key material that will provide detangling and slip again remember to check regulatory limits. You can't just keep adding more and more satramonium chloride or behentrimonium chloride. They do have limits some of your other cationic emulsifiers, don't have as strict limits or don't have limits. So then you can have more in the product. You definitely need your non-ionic wax emulsifiers to help reduce potential irritancy and build the body build that viscosity that your consumers look for. The wash off is definitely from the cationic emulsifier and the non-owner camoxifies, which is why they need to have a very high hlb low, hlb emulsifiers, just won't wash off the hair. The hair will feel very heavy and length. Polyquaterniums are great they're cationically charged polymers, but they can excessive use of polyquaterniums can add to a build up feeling. You know that build up heavy feeling on the hair that can come from the polyquaternia materials. A heavy oily feeling would come from too much oil now silicons are not bad for the hair. We have to have this discussion. If you don't believe me, please watch some videos where i talk specifically about silicons in personal care and of course, we have all our evidence on file. That'S in that dropbox folder, the onedropbox folder for this presentation and for all of our reports and formulas infopersonalcarescience.com.u. If you don't already have that link, if you do have the link you'll find everything in that dropbox folder with silicons, they got a bad rap because uh back in there probably about the 90s, there was a lot of two-in-one products and, as i've mentioned earlier, your Two-In-One shampoo conditioner doesn't provide the same sort of conditioning same level of conditioning as a conditional product which we're talking about today. So a lot of consumers wanted more and more conditioning from their two in one product for its convenience, which led to more and more poly quaternions being added. It just so happened at the time. Natural oils, weren't really used, silicons got used um and the combination of the polyquaternium in there with the silicon, not necessarily the silicon. Any oil would have done it but, like i say, a lot of natural oils weren't used at that time, um, but the con the complex then coated the hair and really weighed down the hair. So it's not actually the silicones that coated the hair. It was the the complex of materials used in a two in one that coated the hair, but silicon's got the right blade, so silicons don't actually coat the hair any more than any other oil. Would you can't use volatile silicons in conditioner products, because you are heating them so high? If you use volatile silicons, they will simply evaporate off during the processing and, of course, you can't use volatile silicons in wash off products anyway, because of regulations, but you wouldn't use them um, they don't get used in a wash off product. What'S the point, the point of a volatile silicon is to leave it on the skin or the hair, because the weight evaporates off and you're left with a silky feeling, which of course doesn't suit a wash off conditioner. It defeats the purpose. It doesn't have any purpose in a wash off product. Um again we talked about on this slide. We talked about the lipid input and again, you'd vary that for really dry damage tape. Again, it's still not much. The oil is not what's providing the conditioning performance. It'S the cationic materials that are providing the conditioning performance again. You need that low ph to provide that that cling. The product clings to the hair for that great detangling and slippery feeling and contrary to what you might read on the internet, hydrolyzed proteins do work extremely well in these products. They do work in wash off products and again, if you need to see some proof, if you need to understand a little more, i do have my video proteins, peptides and collagen, and i have got that link here for you again in the presentation. The hyperlinks are all there for you so that you can go away and you can learn more on the topics um and, and that is basically how we put a conditioner together, uh and a couple of the other really important things. You need to remember when you're building your conditioner formulas, so now, let's take a look at some questions. We'Ve got some great questions starting already. First one is about study. If you do have questions about study with us. Please email info personal care, science dot com. Today? U we're happy to help. You pick the right course for your needs. We do have a certificate in advanced hair formulations that focuses specifically on shampoos, conditioners, treatments, mask products, repair products, um all of your styling products uh, as well as your semi-permanent color colorants. That'S all in the certificate in advanced hair formulations. If you want to learn oxidative colors, your permanent hair, colorants, your bleaches, if you want to learn the keratin straightening perming you'll, need to study our diploma of personal care formulation. There is additional regulatory and safety issues with those types of products you do need to be a properly trained cosmetic chemist, which our diploma of personal care formulation provides. So that's just a little bit of an overview. The difference between our certificate and advanced hair formulations. Also, the assessment requirements are much higher in our diploma and that's again because you become a qualified cosmetic chemist compared to our certificate in advanced hair formulations. Also, the time taken so again, if you do need more details, we definitely have a summary on our website on the study options page, but you can email us we're happy to help. You select the right course to suit your particular needs. Now we've got a question here: is there much use of adding volatile silicons to normal, wash off conditions thanks for asking michael? I just covered that one. Of course there isn't there is. There is no point. First of all, you can't there's a regulatory restriction about adding volatile silicons to wash off products, but there is no point because the reason with a volatile silicon um say in a hair oil that you leave on um. It means that you can apply the product and then that volatile silicon, the weight of that silicone product will basically evaporate off from body temperature, air temperature, so you're not left with a nice delivery system of other oils that might be in the product a little bit Of residual um light feeling silicon oil on the hair feels great, of course, anyone who's used. A hair oil will know what i'm talking about. They feel absolutely beautiful. The reason they feel beautiful and light is because most of it evaporates off so yes there's a point in a leave-on product, but there is no point you're, absolutely correct. There is no point putting a volatile silicon into a wash-off product because you're simply washing it away, not to mention that processing method where you're heating, the water phase to 80 degrees and then adding the oil phase. It would just it would just evaporate off so you're going to have batch to batching consistency and again underlying principle is they're not permitted um also. Is there a purpose of adding dimethicone to standard wash off conditioners? Yes, so you can add dimethicone to a standard wash off conditioner, it's not volatile! It will provide that nice light silky silky feeling you could use plant oils. You could use a combination of both. It really is come down to your company philosophy, what your consumers looking for. Are they looking for more natural ingredients, in which case you tend to use plant oils? Are they wanting more of a slippery or more of a silky feeling you'd get from your dimethicone um yeah you'd use you'd use lipids of some sort up to around three percent, typically depending on the needs of the hair type, and this is in your wash off Product uh and the choice then, would come down to price and consumer preferences uh. What are electrolytes and how do they affect the formulations um with your cationic uh, with conditioners they're cationically charged product, so we can't have any anionically charged emulsifiers or surfactants in the formula. They'Re totally incompatible, they will form insoluble complexes in the formula which your consumer will will feel um very undesirable, so you can't combine them in terms of electrolytes. Well, there's obviously electrolytes from the charge in these formulas. So, even when it comes to selecting your gums, you can't use anionic gums in a conditioner formula. You really need to use cationic or non-ionic gums and polymers in your conditioner formulas, no anionic gums or polymers, either um by the way. Oh christopher, oh hi, christopher thanks. Thanks for joining us um, thank you for doing these live sessions. My pleasure, it's actually really great to interact with the audience. It'S a very one-sided conversation when i'm presenting a video but at least with a live, i get to have a chat with you guys and answer your questions, so yeah really enjoy doing them um. How does the positive charge of the conditioner affect the scalp microbiome great question oxana, and this is one of the reasons why we need to have such a high input of non-ionic high hlb wax emulsifiers in the formula the cationically charged emulsifiers, even the more gentle ones. Even the ones without the regulatory restrictions, obviously the ones with the regulatory restrictions they have restrictions for a reason and that's because of the potential irritation um the ones without the regulatory restrictions they're still by very virtue of their charge, irritating um so yeah it. It can be a problem, but that's why we put so much non-ionic emulsifier in there um, the non-ononic emulsifier improves the mildness dramatically and, of course, helps with the wash off so when you're washing it off thoroughly. You reduce that risk of irritation. Of course, when you've got to leave on product, you have to be very, very careful about the amount of cationic emulsifier um. One of the reasons is, if you have too much positive charge, it can then make the hair feel very heavy in length quite quickly also potential for irritation um with microbiome it. You might be best to ask suppliers who specialize in materials for the microbiome. If they've got some more data on that, the microbiome is still a relatively new area of skin and hair science. It'S a great question that you've you've asked about the scalp in the microbiome. In terms of irritation, we use the non-ionic emulsifiers to reduce the potential irritation and, of course, washing off helps with that as well. There are actually some good actives. I definitely can't name them off the top of my head, but there are some great actives that have anti-dandruff activity by working with the microbiome too. So you could always probably google that or even try prospector, for you know microbiome anti-dandruff or microbiome dandruff - to try and find materials that have that specific function and then you'd probably get some good data there as well um. I only have olive or olive m1000 on hand is that, okay to add, with the hentramanium method, sulfate 50., so btms50 is commonly known as pohantromanium bench harmonium methylsulfate at a 50 ratio, it's typically with either isopropyl alcohol or satural alcohol. Olive oil 1000 has a hlb of around 9.. That'S not really a high hlb. You could definitely try it, but you might find the product doesn't have the desired wash off or the product might feel a little bit heavy on wash off. You could definitely give it a go, but if you're finding that the product feels a little heavy on wash off, particularly for your oilier hair types, you might find you need to use higher hlb and that's again just so that you have a really good wash off Of the product so that you don't have heavy residue left on the hair, but you could definitely give it a go in terms of emulsion stability, perfectly fine in terms of mildness fantastic in terms of will it wash off enough so that you don't have heaviness or Residue on the hair you'd have to make a sample and find out, but you could definitely give it a go. I'M doing your cosmetic chemistry diploma and i made the conditioner we have to make it. I love it. Oh thanks. Sarah, that's quite a basic formula to get you started again. You would have seen the method there where we have to heat the water phase and then add the waxes and oil to the water phase to melt and emulsify in one step. Um, can i add, 10 butters lipids to a leave-in conditioner. Definitely not remember. We don't want a lot of oil on the hair. In fact, that's why we wash the hair first, we're usually washing the hair to remove product to remove oil. Definitely we get a lot of oil from our scalp um and to remove any dirt dust residue. The main thing we want to remove is oil, so we don't want to put a heap of oil in our conditioner because we've just removed it with our shampoo, like i say generally, even even for my dry, damaged, hair type. You know three percent of the formula is quite good if you're talking african, caribbean um, the really curly hair, quite damaged, fragile hair, um, even other curly hair types can be quite fragile. You might go to five percent, but you might also find that is just too much and on rinse off the product or the hair feels heavy and greasy. If that's the case, you need to remove or you need to reduce the oil. You definitely wouldn't use 10. Um, that's just way too much. You just wouldn't use that um in a conditioner. It just would feel really greasy and heavy. If you don't believe me, and definitely a really good activity to do when you're learning to formulate conditioners is make a formula. That'S going to fail do some of these things so that you can see and if you're ever not sure, if you, if you make a sample the incorrect way and you then you feel it on your hair. You will never forget the lesson um. You know. We'Ve had some students where they comment in our student and graduate we've got an exclusive facebook group for our students and graduates, and we've even had some in there, where they, they type, that they might have added xanthan gum by mistake to a conditioner, and it forms The complexes: well, you know what not a wasted experience, because they will never forget that lesson so in in this case, where you've asked about 10, if you tried it and then put it in your hair, you definitely feel that heavy greasy feeling it's just too heavy. It doesn't feel clean, it doesn't feel soft and conditioned it just feels heavy and drags and again you'll. Never forget that lesson. So you know sometimes when you make a bad sample, it's not so bad if you learn from it, because it's a lesson that you you'll never forget and what's the common max input for hydrolyzed protein for a conditioner, it does depend on the hydrolyzed protein. So sometimes you'll get a hydrolyzed protein as a powder. You would tend to use a very small input of those around 0.5 with other hydrolyzed proteins. Look for the suppliers recommendation or efficacy data you'd get somewhere around two or three percent gon na. Do a good job. You'D get somewhere, they might need three to five percent in a treatment product again a treatment where you leave it on for 10 to 15 minutes and then rinse it off for some. That may be far too much around two or three percent you're, probably going to get some pretty good results again it absorbs to the hair, it clings to the hair, even in wash off products. We'Ve got some great data in that collagen protein peptide video. If you wanted to see some data or see a little bit more explanation and how those three types of materials differ, and we do cover hydrolyzed, proteins and adsorbents on wash off and proof that they still have fantastic benefits, i've read some things on the internet where They say you know certain active, hydrolyzed proteins, don't work in wash off products. They absolutely do that. Video actually shows you so just just in case you're, not sure, or you wanted a little bit more information that video definitely has that for you. So yeah generally around two to three percent, but just check the suppliers data. If it's a powder, it would be a lot less it'd, be you know, point five percent, maybe less sometimes they might recommend up to five percent um in a treatment product. Just check that one out um hi, crunchy, hi um, okay, do shampoos, with a more acidic ph lead to build up, not really, no, because the anionic surfactants have that really strong cleansing performance, so they are still going to clean because of their charge. Um they're still going to clean because of the way they produce foam and, of course, they're surface activity. So they're designed to you know, lift the oil or the dirt from the hair and and carry it away when you rinse it off and again, as i've mentioned. Normally your foaming products have an excess of foam, which means they have an excess of surfactant, which you have to do this for the consumers. Otherwise, they don't think the product's going to work, but that excess foam is coming from excess surfactant so that excess effectiveness is generally washing a fair bit away again. Hydrolyzed proteins still have adsorbents to the hair, absorbs not absorbance and absorbance um and again that video. I show you, where wash off products and the great in um, even your wash off body, wash, for example too uh that video again has some information on that. For you, um is honey compatible with anionic surfactants off the top of my head. I believe it is um. Definitely i'd have to double check, but just the name quatt um suggest to me: it's cationically charged and a cationic polymer and i'm pretty sure it is a cationic polymer um is compatible. Sorry uh yeah, it's compatible with your anionic surfactants as well as your cationic emulsifiers. So just double check, but i'm pretty sure that one would be compatible um. Thank you. Oh thank you rebecca. Thank you for the answer. Are you really enjoying your diploma? Thank you. So much what's the main difference in percentage of ingredients between leave-in and wash off conditioner. Is there much difference? Yes? Actually? Yes, there is um. Now it one of the reasons i haven't got percentages in my powerpoint today is it's going to depend on the conditioning material that you use, which is why i really couldn't put percentages into the presentation. First of all, things like your citronium chloride, your pohentromonium chloride. There are limited um input by regulations and that's going to differ depending on where you are in the world. Things like your pantry ammonium methyl, sulfate, not limited, but you'll tend to need more of it and then there's some other materials. I'Ve just launched a video um on a minimalist conditioner. It used hang on. I do have that written down. It used step and quartz salil, which used a really small input. That'S 88 natural. That material blew me away how incredibly well that material actually conditioned. So it depends on the material you're using as your actual input, so i didn't want to put percentages in this presentation, but if you look at any of where's my little list here, we go. If you look at any of these formulas, you're going to see a variety of materials, get used, uh from your basic um, the henry ammonium chloride, zetromonium chlorides your potentiometer methyl sulfates the step and quartz allele um a couple of other materials and they all get used At different percentages, so if we were saying using the same material in a standard wash off conditioner versus a leave on conditioner, you would be about a third in it in a lemon product. So let's say: let's make the maths easy. Let'S say you're using three percent of a cationic emulsifier and again, please check the regulations in the material that could be too much. It could be too little, let's say, you're using three percent in a wash off conditioner. Your leave on product would be one percent or less and remember that's because you're not washing it off. So you could start at around point seven. Five percent in this. In this scenario, which is about a quarter of the amount, i would use in the wash off product uh and you could see what conditioning benefit it has. Is it too heavy remember you'd, have to reduce everything else as well? I do actually have a video. It is um the no rinse conditioner, the no rinse conditioner video, that is a leave-in conditioner and in there i talk about how i would typically about a third. It um, but again depends on the hair type depends on the conditioning agent. You also need to reduce the the waxy emulsifiers too. You don't want too many of them one. The consumer perception for a rinse off conditioner is not as demanding as say, a mask repair type treatment product, but also because you don't want a lot of waxy emulsifiers present. Otherwise, it's going to make the hair feel really really heavy when you, when you rub it through the hair, you don't want a lot of residual heaviness on there, so we do have the no rinse conditioner that will really help guide. You just remember it's going to depend on the conditioning agent you use, but definitely we have that video there, which explains the concepts and, of course, all the other um materials like the the polyquaternium or the gua hydroxypropel trimming chloride. They are reduced as well again. They'Re cationically charged. We don't want to weigh the hair down um things like your hydrolyzed proteins. Again, you could reduce quite a bit um. You still want some present, in fact, they're really really good, with repair and leave-on products like that um, because they do help with the structure of the hair so have check out those videos um also the curly hair cream. That'S another one, um, that's a levon product! Um that really helps hold the style of the curl as well as condition the hair so check those ones out as well. Um kindly tell me what is the perfect formula for hair conditioners? It depends. It depends on your price point. Obviously, you know things like your citronium chlorophytraminochloride, very powerful. You don't need very big inputs, they're relatively cheap. Then you can combine it with something as simple as certain alcohol, depending on the viscosity. You want to achieve also very, very cheap, but not much of a marketing story there um. If you want to have more natural ingredients generally, the price is going to go up with your more natural selections and and then you know how, how far do you want to go it's? How long is a piece of string um without more information? I really couldn't tell you the perfect conditional formula and then also you've got to think about hair type. As i've mentioned, i've got quite dry damaged, chemically treated hair. I look for more conditioner conditioner performance from my conditioners, but if you compare that with say a teenage boy, that's got quite oily. Scalp oily skin short hair he's going to want a very different conditioning performance from his conditioner too um. You know, and and we could be looking at very different budgets of types of products, so how long is a piece of string? You know and that's again why i really couldn't put exact percentages in this presentation, but again, please watch the videos contact us for all the free formulas, you're going to see how the different formulas vary to accommodate um. You know some different innovations. I'Ve got different innovations in these videos. Some of them is quite basic. We'Ve got a very basic how to make a conditioner we've got the how to make a conditioner using our create cosmetic formulas program, which makes it super easy if you've never formulated before the create cosmetic formulas program, helps you pick and choose and adjust your inputs. We'Ve also got that blog with the create cosmetic formulas program how to make different conditioners for different hair types which which helps answer that question so yeah it. It really depends on what you're creating there's. No one perfect conditioner, that's going to suit absolutely everyone, um, not many at all, actually uh. I tried 20 lipid in a leave on and my hair feels greasy in my den. So you know what eunice you will never forget that. So that's it's! A lesson learnt um and that you can never put a price on that either. So great lesson learnt thanks for sharing um, so now you're sure highly put in leave one's. No! No - and you have - and you said, you've had the coily hair type, which is the one that tends to need a bit more oil, so yeah in your hair, give it a go at, say: five percent maximum. You might find you hit the the sweet spot, particularly for your hair type um. One of the reasons with that really coily hair type is that, for instance, my hair's very straight so oils from my scalp can get through my hair pretty easily when you're talking about that really curly really coily hair type. It is really difficult for the oils from your scalp to get even past the first few coils, the first inch or so so. That is why the african caribbean, hair types are really coily. Hair types tend to need a little bit more oil and that's simply because the ends of your hair aren't getting any of that nice sebum from your scalp, whereas people with very straight hair, they don't tend to need as much oil even when it's dry and damaged, Because we can get plenty of oil from our scalp through the hair just a couple of days between washes um, so yeah try the five percent. If that's still too much go to three percent. You'Ll probably find with your hair um around five percent gon na, be a really nice input. Um! Oh, thank you! So much yep um. When do you choose btms50 versus btms25 price and supplier? So, okay, if we're talking the henship ammonium methyl sulfate 50. It means it's: 50 percent of the hentromonium methyl sulfate and generally paired with satirical alcohol may not be may also be paired with a polyquaternium you'd have to look at what else is part of that composition, um versus btms25, which means it's twenty-five percent. The hentramonium methyl sulfate, basically uh and again what else is in there. You need to consider that like is there some polyquaterniums in there is that going to suit your company philosophy to have them there uh? Is it going to suit the hair type? There would definitely be some cereal alcohol, which is fine. That'S a non-ionic high hlb emulsifier, that's typically used in conditioners. It'S also naturally derived so. It ticks a lot of boxes, also quite cheap um, if you're using them and you're just trying to do an apples for apples. Comparison like i say it depends. What else is there, but strictly numbers speaking btms 25 is 25 btms. Btms50 is 50 btms, so you're going to need double btms25 to get the same performance as your btms50 generally speaking, depends. What else is there, but in principle um? So why would you choose one over? The other depends what else it's combined with in that that waxy form and depends on price and supply. Oh, my goodness, supply who's. Having supply issues, look since covert, i've got to say logistical issues, they're still hanging around there's still a nightmare. You'Ve got to allow so much longer lead times on on everything, so it could come down to a supply issue um and that could determine whether you're going to use one material over the other. In terms of input, you would simply double the amount of btms 25. As you've been using with the 50, if you wanted to have an apples for apples comparison, so i hope that helps do still check what else might be present. There might be some poly quaternions present. There would definitely be certain alcohol in both check that out as well uh. What can you suggest some holding agents for curling cream? Okay, please check out my video curly hair cream. It is beautiful um! I recently you know it's a bit of a covert. You know we couldn't holiday anywhere, so i changed my hair. I got a perm totally destroyed my hair mind, you finally grown it out um, but during that time i got to really play with and experience a lot of curly hair products. Um and of course, i had extremely damaged hair, so it kind of made me feel, like you know, i had your hair type there eunice for a bit um. So anyway, i made this video curly hair cream and it is fantastic mind you it uses. I can't think of the name of the top of my head. It'S in the formula, so you know contact us. If you don't already have our dropbox info personalcarescience.com.u um, the actual material i used in there, it provides conditioning and styling hold a very small amount, very flexible low amount of styling hold, so it really enhances the curls while conditioning the hair. So have a look at that formula now, sometimes some of these materials you can't get in bulk, you don't want to purchase the bulk amount remember to check out our cosmetic raw materials for small brands. Facebook group that facebook group is designed for people like you that might have a small brand uh and you can't afford or won't need 25 kilos of a raw material from a supplier, but you might want five kilos. So the point of that group is that you would post there your location, the trade name of the material and see if others near you want to split packs with you. So you could find you get other people near you that would split packs, so that then you can access some of these fantastic materials um that have really great performance and can split the packs without needing to worry about a 25 kilo purchase. So please check that out cosmetic raw materials for small brands, facebook group - you should find it pretty easily and you can just put posts in there and that way you can access some of these materials um. You could definitely the holding agents for curling cream. I would say you want some flexible holding agents. You do want some conditioning properties in there too, but i do talk you through the concepts in that curly hair cream videos so check that out as well. Um did. I use no conditioner building this easily achieve the wet hair video. I don't know that video. I can't answer that very sorry without more information. I definitely can't answer that. Sorry about that um is honey compatible with anionic surfactants. I i think it is um quaternion poly quaternion materials are in general, compatible with ionic surfactants. Remember they're, polymers, they're, cationic, polymers they're, not cationic surfactants. It'S the surface, active activity of a cationic, emulsifier or surfactant that makes it incompatible with an anionic, cationic, um uh. Sorry, anionic emulsifier or surfactant they're, the incompatible ones, your cationic polymers, your gua hydroxypropyl, traumatic chloride, your polyquaterniums, potentially honey quad. Without checking the data, i can't say with 100 confidence, but i'm 99 sure it would be compatible with anionic surfactants, because your poly quaternion materials, which the honey quartz would be chemically quite similar, would be compatible with anionic surfactants, so cationic polymers are compatible with anionic surfactants. So again, just just make a note of that. It is in the presentation if you want to get a copy of this um. I do make a point of of explaining that your cationic polymers are compatible with anionic surfactants and emulsifiers, because it's definitely something that a lot of beginners do get very confused over. So don't feel bad if you weren't sure, hopefully now you've learned um. But for sure i do believe the honeycomb would be compatible. What are the substitute emulsifiers apart from the one presented? Um? Oh well, uh, so the key ones that we've talked about. We'Ve talked about pantry ammonium methyl sulfate. We'Ve talked about um the heteronormating chloride, citronium chloride, um. I mentioned the step in quartz allele, if you're after a natural conditioning agent, it's not completely natural, it's 88 natural, but oh my god. It blew my mind again. I have very dry damaged chemically treated hair um. It worked amazingly and i'm pretty sure, you'd have to check the formula in our dropbox, but i'm pretty sure i only needed about two percent blew my mind that i needed such a low input and i got such amazing results so definitely check out that stepping quad Sili, if you want a natural alternative - and it was so it performed so well. I made it in a minimalist condition where i didn't use any other cationic agents, because i really wanted to test it. I was speaking with my wrap with that material and, of course, i'm really a bit dubious about conditioners, because i like a really nice conditioner again because my hair is chemically treated, it needs the conditioner. Anyway, i tried it. I didn't use any other quaternary agents in there blew my mind. The performance was unbelievable. So definitely check that out if you're interested in a almost natural, it's not completely natural, but it's almost natural um. There is another interesting material. That'S worth checking out. It'S certainly not cheap, it's quite pricey um, but if you don't want to use a synthetic polymer like gua, hydroxypropyl, traumatic chloride, if you're looking for an alternative to gua hydroxypropel trimming chloride, that is natural check out in your tech, 25 hp, 20, h25p um off the Top of my head, i cannot think what its inky name is, but it is natural, it's completely natural and it works just like a gua hydroxypropyl, trimmonium chloride, um. It'S not cheap, though so, but check it out. If you wanted an all-natural alternative to gua hydroxy purple traumatic, it works fantastic, um, another one. This is actually a very interesting material. I have this in my video on organic conditioner. It'S plantar quad nc. Now this is a very interesting material, because it's actually anionic now before you say, hang on you've just told us: it needs to be cationic. Yes, it normally does need to be cationic. This material actually surprised me because it does really work. You don't get because it's not cationic, you don't get the same slippery feeling, but it is all natural. You can use it in organic conditioners and it definitely does leave the hair conditioned. You don't get the same slip, though so on application, because it doesn't have that cationic charge. It doesn't have the same slip, but it definitely detangles and it definitely conditions the hair. That'S a basf material, very interesting material. If you need the product to be all natural, um and condition the hair well, that product will definitely work just bear in mind. You'Re not going to feel that immediate slip out in the shower in the in the shower. It doesn't have that same slip, but when the hair dries, it dries beautifully, conditioned very interesting material to check out um a fantastic repair product. Is grain repair bond by grant industries? It'S it's not something you would use in a standard, uh conditioner, but definitely good in a leave-on repair product. I do have that in a hair repair. Video definitely worth checking out um. Recently, i've been put onto cosmo cosmogreen es1822, plus we've just put this into our uh organic version of our create cosmetic formulas program. Um. You can get this from a few small suppliers and it's also a really good, completely, naturally derived uh conditioning agent um. It'S a inky name, a aruka diet, a rocodyle, bahinol betenate, escilate, okay. I obviously didn't practice that one but check it out. Cosmogreen es1822 plus it does have very specific processing, needs. Very, very specific. You do need to follow the method very clearly that is in our create cosmetic formulas. Organic program does work, does work quite well. There'S a couple of others. I don't like to talk bad about materials. There are some materials out there that are all natural, naturally derived in green, that promise a lot but don't deliver. If i haven't mentioned them, i don't think much of them um and again. That'S simply because i look for a really good conditioning performance from my conditioner there's, some that we get asked to add to our create cosmetic formulas program and i haven't added them simply because they don't work. They make you slap, they make your shower very, very slippery. They don't detangle the hair or leave it feeling conditioned um, so there's a few other examples, um of materials that i've found that work really really well. Like i said, i don't like to talk bad about materials. There'S some that i haven't mentioned, because i'm really not happy with their performance doesn't mean they won't work for some of your more normal hair types or shorter, hair, um and again they're, more naturally derived materials. Um, but i haven't found that they do the job for my hair, so i and definitely wouldn't work for your very dry, damaged or curly. Hair types definitely wouldn't have the detangling or performance that you need either. So there's a few other suggestions for you um, please. Where can i find the document of this presentation?