Hair Care #Beautyscience Panel

Thank you so much for joining me today, my name's jen from the equal, if you're unfamiliar with our platform, we're a science communication platform where we try to give a voice to scientists and other experts in and around the cosmetic space. If you like, this video, be sure to subscribe to our youtube channel, we're going to be doing a lot more e-panels like this, and for today's event, it's a hair care beauty. Science panel with me today is valerie george, co-host of the beauty brains, podcast she's, a cosmetic chemist specializing in hair, color and hair care. Cassandra celestin is a hair stylist licensed cosmetologist and cosmetic chemist, also specializing in hair care and, finally, mel guido aka mains by mel is a textured hair, specialist, hair, stylist and hair care influencer. Just so everyone knows. This conversation is going to be published right away on our youtube channel and eventually it's going to be making its way onto our podcast. But for my first question to all of you guys, because i feel, like everyone always asks this, what is your current hair care? Routine kind of seems like an odd question to start with, but i'm interested anyone want to start which one there's so many routines right, um i'll start, i'm i've already started. I feel like my hair care. Routine really depends on how my hair and my scalp feels on its wash day. So if i feel like i need to wash then i'll wash and on this wash day, my routine pretty much always consists of shampoo for sure conditioner guaranteed, and then i usually have to leave in some kind of cream, conditioner and a serum to lock in. I feel like those are some basic staples that need to be in there yeah. I would um agree. It really depends uh what my hair is like, so i'm not a licensed cosmetologist um i can barely brush my own hair. I had to have my hair done for this by somebody else, uh, which is one of the perks of working in um at a hair care facility. We have a test lab and i can always just say: hey. Do my hair um, i really don't do a whole lot. I probably come from like a more minimalist view. I'M always on the go for me. It'S important to use a good clarifying shampoo to cleanse the scalp every now and again, i think a clean scalp is really important and then just a conditioner based on like what i'm feeling and honestly, sometimes it's like what fragrance do. I want to smell and i'll use that product sounds familiar well for me. For me, it's different um, being african-american um. We have several different types of routine during the summer months. I do protective styling, where i wear hair extensional hair weaves to protect my natural tresses because either i'm going to the beach or i'm going to the pool and i'm exposed to a lot of different types of chemicals or hair type environments. I mean hair environmental problems and you know for my hair as far as like the weather and what i do is during the summer months is um, where my extensions are weave and i wash my hair weekly conditioner deep conditioner sit under the dryer for, like 30 Minutes, rinse it out properly entirely to make sure there's nothing left underneath that weave and then um i go under the dryer and let it dry completely and then i'll style, the extensions um. During the winter months i wear my natural hair and when i'm wearing my natural hair, i use a co-wash and then i use a lot of different uh products. That would bring a lot of moisture to ethnic hair. And when i say moisture i mean like light bulbs and they build up, so i have to wash my hair like every other day, so i either use um, co-wash or um sulfate shampoo in between them, maybe like once a week or once every two weeks, and Then, like every three two days, i'll do a co-wash and then put all the products to style, my naturally coily hair. So just so, everyone knows in the comments we are taking some questions. So if you have any questions that you'd like to leave in the chat, send them my way and then i'll ask our panelists throughout this conversation or if i don't do it throughout the conversation then after towards the end just for, i guess some ground work. My next question is for valerie, would you mind giving us a high level overview of the structure of hair and how does that relate to hair care, yeah sure a lot of people? Think of hair, as this dead thing on your head and while it may be biologically dead, it's not like your skin. It'S not leaving a living. It'S not functioning in in any other way other than just kind of hanging from your scalp, i like to think of hair as chemically alive, because it's not just this. This thing that's existing right. It has. It has a chemistry. It interacts with products that you use. It'S interacting with the environment and having a fundamental grounding in that is really instrumental in as a formulator selecting the right ingredients to formulate in a product, whereas a consumer choosing the right products to use so from a structural morphology point of view. Very simplistically. Hair has three main segments we have going from the outside in we have the cuticle, which is a protective layer of flat like shingles, on a roof that live over the outside of the hair fiber. There can be anywhere from four to 11 layers of cuticle on the hair. Moving inward. We have a region called the cortex. The cortex is where really the brunt of the protein of the hair fiber exists. It'S also where the color of your hair lives, so the natural pigment in your hair is known as melanin and there's a few different types, but the two predominant ones being you melanin existing in little granules like chocolate, chip, cookies uh, you have these little chips. That'S what mel um eumelanin looks like in the hair and then the reddish pigment feel melanin is more diffused throughout the hair, fiber and the third segment of hair moving to the very center is called the medulla. The medulla is a space that was previously thought to be kind of empty and cavernous and there's hair air in there, but now we're thinking it's filled with lipids and some other structures. Not everyone has a medulla, not all hair types have a medulla. Sometimes your hair can have a medulla in one section and it disappears in another section, it's a little bit of a mystery as to why that happens from an evolutionary perspective, why does it exist um, at least as far as the head on your hair is concerned? That'S a bit unknown, but that's sort of like the big overarching, hair morphology. You have hair as a cylinder. Maybe it's not perfectly round. Maybe it's ovular, maybe uh. It'S a little bit has an ellipses uh elliptical angle to it can be different shapes, but all hair has a cuticle layer, cortex and most and some hair has a medulla. Those are the three big parts, and i guess related to this is the shape and you've kind of touched on it a little bit. But the next question is for cassandra: could you expand on this, which is a high level overview of the shape of hair? And how does this relate to hair care? Okay, um, with the shape of the hair, you take the cross section. You have round oval slightly oval, and then you have flat and um it's even more complicated. When you look at um, the um, like a light scanning microscope of the hair you'll, see that some hair have twists and turns in it, especially when it comes to flat, hair, um or curly hair too. So, when i say flat, hair most of the time flat. Hair when you take the cross section of the hair it's flat or it could be kind of oval. So when you have curly hair or coily hair, kinky hair, it goes from completely flat to a little bit more oval and a little bit more and until round. And then you know and so on. So, for example, a 4c type hair, which is um the common african-american type hair very super curly, kinky hair. You know you will find that under a microscope, a scanning electron microscope that you um, you will find the hair is flat, and then it has a lot of twists and turns so that really affects how you can get moisture from the sebaceous gland in the hair. Follicle to come down the hair shaft, so as you move on to different hair um hair types, so you get to a three or level or two type where it's more round, then the sebaceous gland are able to. You know: um allow the oils to come down. The hair shaft because it's not as tightly coiled and doesn't have a lot of flatness to it and twist and turns and when i say flatness and twist and turns if you can imagine like a ribbon and you're just like twisting it and and then then you're Curling it on top of twisting it, so it's really hard for the oils to come down from your scalp to the ends of your hair um with round hair, it's a little easier because it's just going straight down the the sebaceous glands is able to. You know produce the oils and the oils come down. The hair shaft um very easily. Sometimes uh people are the shape with round hair complain about the hair being oily all the time. Um. Another thing about the combination of flat and oval hair is that you have these um structure anomalies with these hairs, where you have nodes in them, also which can inhibit a lot of moisture non-vegetable oils coming down the hair shaft, as well as cause hair damage, depending On your hair care, routine, let's say if you're blow drying or using hot tools or if you're, chemically treating your hair as well. I had quite a few questions throughout. I don't know, maybe valerie. If you want to answer this one uh it surrounding uh porosity. What'S the difference between high and low porosity, and then how does this relate to hair care yeah sure? So we have this cuticle layer on the hair, i like to think of it as a again like shingles on a house. Why do um houses have roofs with shingles on them? It'S to protect the roof and the interior from the home from things getting inside. The cuticle is really the first line of defense to protecting the integrity of your hair fiber when you even just naturally live and you're showering and you're getting your hair, wet, you're walking outside having uv exposure. Cassandra mentioned she has a summer routine to make sure she can care for her hair in the summer. Your hair is naturally weathering, even if you're not getting coloring services, bleaching done, believe it or not. A lot of people still get perms all of those chemical interactions that you do with the hair compromise that cuticle structure on the hair so as the cuticle weathers, the chemistry of it is changing. You'Re getting more cystic acid groups forming so the actual overall neck chemistry of the hair is changing. Maybe the cuticle is breaking off. If you thermally style, your hair, you have cracks and fissures in the hair fiber which can stay or they can lead to breakage. But overall the hair is becoming uh, less hydrophobic, meaning um. It'S more water, loving um, there's there's an expression. We sometimes say here that you can't wet a healthy hair. Healthy hair. Has this really nice fatty layer over it? That is meant to also help protect the protein and the hair fiber. So as hair is weathering or getting damaged, you lose this fatty layer. The cuticles breaking off the interior of the hair is becoming more exposed and it's easier for things like water or even hair. Color to penetrate the hair fiber because the structure has been compromised. So when i hear hair stylists talk about porosity in our testing facility here, they're talking about the hair, uh is naturally but not naturally, but it's becoming more able to absorb things. It'S taking longer to dry, it's taking things up unevenly, and that can be a negative, especially when you're trying to modify the hair with something like color. You want it to take up evenly. You want it to feel conditioned nicely from root to tip and if hair is porous, sometimes that can be um a challenge. It doesn't mean that hair physically has holes in it. Sometimes we think of it. That way. Sometimes the hair does physically have holes like the pores of your skin, but the porosity, i think, really refers to the ability of the hair to bring things in and take things back out and that can be positive or i think mostly it's a negative, and i Guess i have one more sorry, i didn't prepare you guys with these questions, one more like hair physiology question. Maybe this can go back to cassandra for this one around hydration, uh water content and what that kind of means for the health or feel of our hair? I'M sorry say that again poorly formed question, but maybe you can take us through water content in the hair and like swelling and what that might mean for how our hair looks and feels okay. So the hair um naturally will swell due to the humidity in in the in the air and environment, depending on where you live um. So in florida, like my hair, is the worst like. I can't do anything with it with the high humidity um, but when i travel to let's say las vegas, it's actually popping off because there's really no humidity in the hair, and i can actually see it in my hair and my skin, where, if i blow dry, My hair there's like little pieces just popping off everywhere, so we naturally have a percentage of um of water content in our hair and um. The cortex will swell up based on how the cortex you're, basing your genetics and how your hair fiber grows out. Your hair and your genetics and how the cells are compact and the amino acids are packed up together in your hair. Follicle for individuals will be different, so between that and the water content. You may have different reactions, so we may both you know like. I may have a sister that her and i go to las vegas and she doesn't have that issue because her hair is not made up the same way. My hair is. I took a different genetic makeup from my parents than she did so you know it's not really people just can't say. Oh, my hair is dry and everybody's hair is dry and they always have these problems. You have to really understand what products work for your hair, not necessarily um, that it just doesn't work because of this content of these ingredients. You have to understand your hair and i think the next question would be perfect for mel to probably get us started just because i feel, like maybe you're uh, the most aware with your platform and maybe the questions you get from your followers. So what are some of the top misconceptions? You hear about hair care ingredients, products. The way you should be treating your hair that you've seen online? Well, it's difficult to even know where to begin, because now that everyone has a platform to speak, there's a lot of broken telephone, a lot of miscommunication a lot of misinformation, and now no one knows what's good, what's bad, which is why it's great that we're here. So um silicones, we'll start with is, is a big one, that everyone is still unsure about. There'S still a lot of people that aren't sure if it works, if it doesn't work, i speak positively about silicones on my platform, a lot which uh anyone that's new seems to be confused about because they heard that silicones are harmful and dry out. The hair, especially curly hair, is this true: do silicones actually dry out the hair um i'll leave that up to the experts? If one of you want to speak to me and hear from you, and not just for me, yeah, i hate when people use terms of like chemical classes and say: oh silicones are bad. It'S like well, silicone is like a term for a big class of molecules and they're all functionalized to do different things, and so maybe i know um in a lot of hair communities. People don't like ammo dimethicone because it builds up on the hair. Well yeah. It was designed to do that, it's functionalized, so that it can adhere to the hair fiber and prevent water from penetrating the hair and pulling hair dye out i mean ammo. Dimethicone is a great color protectant. It'S designed to do that, but maybe cyclopentasiloxane can be in a product, you'll say: whoa silicone. I don't want it to build up the hair. That'S a really volatile silicone! It'S going to help coat the hair fiber make something go really glossy glide right over and then cyclopentaloxane will evaporate into the air. So you can't say it's bad, just like ammo dimethicone, because it'll build up, because that's not the case and i think that's where people get confused and silicones get a bad rap because maybe there's a silicone that they don't like and they just say. Oh well, all silicones are bad yeah and, of course, everyone's hair is different, so what works for one person isn't necessarily going to work for another, and so when we're sharing, what's working, what's not working, we need to you know, say maybe the smell works for me. Instead of saying all of them are bad yeah, that's definitely a big one. That i see. I also um. I notice a lot of people have been asking about gmos in hair care uh as well, and if those are bad, so i don't see the relevance. Yeah yeah i mean genetically modified organisms. I mean that's also a really broad term um. For example. You know cotton is grown um. There are no non-gmo cotton, varietals left, as i've been told, so any ingredients that are derived from cotton. Typically, they can't say: hey they're non-gmo. I know people are concerned about gmos from an edible perspective uh, but in uh hair care. I mean if there's no concern, that's a different story but um, even in just in personal care, not just hair care, skin care uh. I i always. I think it's funny when people uh say: oh, i don't want gmo, but then you have squalane, which is a gmo derived ingredient. It comes from yeast which are genetically modified or bacteria which are genetically modified to produce the squalane, and it's like well. Do you want that or do you want squalane from sharks like which one is it right? So i think um again it's just this terminology where people hear it's bad and they don't really understand um. How you know science is is helping helping the society our society with with stuff - i don't know what anyone else thinks, but, and that probably also comes from the notion that natural is better, is natural really better. This is a big thing. Everyone is trying to go. The natural way with that belief, but is that sustainable? Does it really make a difference for our hair that again is dead, not dead, but right, biologically dead, yeah chemically alive? Well, with the holy topic with natural, i mean you have to think about it. There'S a lot of things out there that are natural. That can hurt you. People are allergic to a lot of natural things. So can't really say natural is better and then in a formula they don't they're they're they're hard to formulate with too, because you're not getting the same type of consistency in the ingredients, because they're, naturally sourced or they're natural and then um they're hard to formulate with So they won't have a long shelf life so, to be honest like for me, natural sounds good, but i'm not going to go crazy about it. Yeah other misconceptions: you're on a roll now, oh i know, um parabens is a big one, not just in hair care and skin care as well. Um. There'S a lot on that. Of course, i guess we'll leave it at because i go on so long of diatribes. On my platform demonstrably safe, it's fine! If you want more, i have a 30 minute video that you can go and watch yeah. I pulled you out, didn't read parabens, not really bad yep. Besides that, oh i had. I have a there was a list. There was a link, but i'm sure there's also some comments coming in. I don't know if you see any jen well, we did have a question and i i think this is really interesting anytime. I i get this but uh ingredients that we should look for or ingredients to avoid actively avoid or look for what do you? What really are bad ingredients? Anyone want to take this cassandra valerie. Well, i think um, both mel and cassandra, hit on this earlier. Everyone'S hair is different and not just from a genetic perspective, but the way you live, what's your water, like? What'S your sun exposure like what's your diet, like? Are you taking any medicines? There are so many factors that make your hair unique and that's what makes hair care so complex. I mean i meet people who are like. Oh, i can formulate shampoos and conditioners and i'm like. Can you because hair is not easy peasy? You know everyone is different. Um and so in looking for products, you can say: oh i didn't like that product, but that doesn't mean it's a terrible product. It just means it's not right for your hair or whatever condition your hair is, is it winter? Is it summer you know um cassandra mentioned she uses different products over the year um i do too sometimes mostly for skin though but uh it's it's just really complex, so i would say: look for ingredients that you see a consistent trend in that work. For your hair, um and then ingredients to avoid i mean i i would ask: why are you trying to avoid them? If it's part of your lifestyle, if you're vegan, i would look for brands that have a vegan certification, um or you know, avoid products with beeswax or lanolin in them. Look for those that fit sort of your ethos with your lifestyle, but from a safety perspective. If that's, why you're looking to avoid ingredients, i don't think you have to worry about that, because cosmetic products are required to be safe. It'S illegal to make unsafe products it's illegal. To put toxins in cosmetics, that's another one that drives me crazy, like oh, our products are toxin-free, i'm like yeah, everyone's are and or formulated at the dose in which they're safe, so um, and aside from i know, the curly girl methods, which i'm sure we'll talk About in a bit, i have some specific things to look for and avoid. If you have a hair that has a specific need, um, you know follow that, but if you're worried about safety, there's nothing to avoid everything's should be good, also um. As a cosmetologist. You know working in a hair salon and you have your clients and your your clients come in and you know they look to the cosmetologist to tell them what should i use? You know i walk out the salon and my hair looks gorgeous and it lasted like this for a week and it was amazing what should i buy and i think your stylists are trained on the products they go to these conventions every year, they're trained on these Products and they know how to style your hair and they're. Also, your therapist, because you're telling them your lifestyle you're telling them where you're going, what you did, what work, what didn't work and they can kind of guide you into a selection of hair products that work for you. For sure i mean i feel like we're all trying to become more conscious and as ingredients or names are being thrown around everywhere, like silicones or whatever sulfates parabens. Now we're trying to become more aware of them and we're really trying to read and understand the label, which is great, but we don't understand these things unless we actually make the products right like. I could never look at an ingredient list and understand it like valerie. Does because valerie you actually formulate products and ingredients, and that's that's what you do so when we try to get really into it? And we see oh there's, there's an alcohol in here and is that a bad alcohol or is that a good alcohol? Because there's fatty alcohols then there's the drying alcohols. If there's a drying alcohol in here, is it going to be bad for my hair? It'S like i don't know. If ingredients are, i doubt ingredients are put into hair products to have a negative effect. It'S like. Maybe the ingredient on its own would be bad, but in relation to the rest of the formula is having something like isopropyl alcohol. I think that's how you say it uh in in an ingredient list. Is that going to be bad for the hair? That'S a that's another big big question: the drying alcohols. So when thing is like rally can formulate, let's say a hair conditioner and i can formulate a hair conditioner. We have the same ingredient listing but because we're two different formulators for two different companies. We may use different percentages, so you don't know what you're getting just based on the ingredient listing because you don't know the amount of the content of all the ingredients. So you have to also think about that. You have to think about. Okay, i did research on these ingredients and i'm comfortable with this, and then you have to say: let me try it and then you can have another company that knocked it off and reverse engineer it and their their product is actually better than the one you originally Used even sourcing ingredients is makes a difference, so that makes a big difference as well the quality you know assurance of the product of the ingredients first and then the product. We had a whole bunch of questions about clean and natural. So i'll, just like quickly answer that natural isn't always more sustainable and sometimes it's more environmentally destructive. I have a lot of videos on this topic, including an hour. I think it's an hour and a half, i'm sorry, video from our out la green beauty night. So we kind of dove into this, and i also have a half hour - video diving into it, but it it's complex and it's it depends, but the blanket statement that natural is green just doesn't work and on clean beauty. This was actually the topic of a previous panel. So if you want a lot of details, then go watch that panel you can find it on her youtube channel, but ultimately the movement is underpinned by pseudoscience and kind of uh takes advantage of fear and puts a lot of uh. I mean a lot of puts a lot of anxiety out into the market that it's just undo. So if you want more details, maybe i've peaked perked. Your interest go watch that video. What we're talking about kind of reminds me of some of the conversations cassandra you and i have had about sulfates or specifically sodium lauryl sulfate, because there are a lot of sulfate ingredients and the percentages make a difference for whether the ingredient will be too cleansing. So people will make blanket statements that we should just have, i think, in the curly hair method. They do. I don't i'm not super familiar, but we should just avoid uh sodium lauryl sulfate, because it's going to be definitely too uh too cleansing for my hair and also i'm going to completely avoid it. But why do i have build up in my hair anyways? Maybe you can take us through that sodium lauryl sulfate in shampoos, yay or nay. I may have gave a little bit of the answer. But what do you think me yeah me? Oh yeah yeah, i mean like i mean you talked about it several times. I mean i'm there with you as far as that um it depends on the formula i mean if you're gon na get a formula from like the dollar store or something really cheap, then yeah you'll, probably strip your hair uh when, when it comes to uh sodium Oil sulfate formulas - i would probably uh - grow towards the professional lines because uh they formulate you know with a little bit more love because you're paying for that most of the time besides the packaging um. But they do formulate a little bit of love because they think about color treated, hair they're thinking about okay, your stylist is promoting this product to the client. So you'll probably have you know, hair color or you have issues blow dry. You know thermal um treatments every week or something from blow drying, so they're going to make their products with a little bit more love and and dial back on. The amount of you know sodium lauryl sulfate, whereas, if you're buying something for like five dollars down the street at the dollar, store you're you're, probably going to like blow up that cuticle. So it's really on um what you think works for you. So, for example, my hair would not work with the dollar store, let's say sodium little sulfate, but maybe someone with round hair like um type 2. Maybe um like an asian type of coarse hair, where there's like a lot of cysteine protein build up in the cuticles and they can deal with it better because it's this tightly wrapped with with the cortex of cuticles and where my hair is flat and twisted. And very fragile, it wouldn't work for me. So that's another thing we talked about like it really depends on what works for you with sodium lower sulfate, i wouldn't say just like, throw it to the side and not use it. I think you should talk to somebody who can guide you like your hair stylist, who gets trained on. You know all these different types of products every year when they go to these hair shows they have training on it, they understand and then they use it. So they're really testing it for like a year or two, and they can tell you look. This is not working for you and your lifestyle. Does anyone want to add before we dive into the curly hair method and maybe uh mill? I feel like you're super familiar with this. You can maybe tell us what that is, but before we get into that, i feel like you, get a lot of questions specifically on that uh. But before does anyone want to add any other top misconceptions that you've seen online yeah i'd like to add just about the sulfate free that really kicked off when um pureology said hey sulfate strip color out of your hair, come by our sulfate free shampoos, and that Really kicked that craze off and i can make a dozen sulfate-free shampoos for you that will take color out of your hair damage, your hair trash, your hair um, just like a sulfated shampoo, can or even worse so use what you like focus less on. What'S in it talk to your hair professional who can guide you to products that, in their experience, work for your hair type and hair condition as cassandra said and don't get too caught up about? What'S in it? Okay, do you want to take us through the curly girl method and then maybe we can chime in on whether it's like a yay or nay? We should be using that method. If we have, i don't obviously have curly hair but curly hair. Did you say cassandra or mel? Oh i'm, so sorry i met mel. I said mel sandra, i'm sure you know a lot about this, which is um well i'll start, because i of course i follow a lot of accounts with curly hair that do follow the curly hair method and it is a really unique way of taking care of The hair um, and just like anything, you know it may work for some people, but it doesn't work for everybody, so um, and i also i find that it also makes it very complex to take care of your hair um, because it insinuates that there's only one Way if you have curly hair, this is the method you can't you have to follow these rules. You can't use any sulfates, you can't use any silicones. Parabens are bad uh, you know microfiber towel, only no, no brushes and where these these methods and rules may work for some, it's not going to work for everybody, and then it um. You know it complicates things. Then people might start to lose faith in their hair. When they're following this method and noticing that their hair is actually becoming worse, because if we go from something that's tried and true, and then we switch up our entire lifestyle, i feel like this can shock our hair, sometimes and uh and yeah again it doesn't. It doesn't work for for everybody also. I want to just mention a lot of people that follow the curly hair method. They usually start this curly hair method after years of mistreating their hair straightening doing all the bad things for it, um, and so, while they're starting the curly hair method, they're, also not heat styling, their hair they're, not washing it. As often they start deep conditioning. So they're doing these other things that are beneficial, but they're crediting that it must be the curly hair method. It must be all of all the rules, but correlation does not equal causation right. It'S yes, maybe maybe some of the methods are working, but it's also the fact that you're just generally taking better care of your hair - and i think that's the main thing i think what's great about the curly hair method - is that it is promoting embracing your natural Texture, but it's also doing that by demonizing a lot of ingredients that aren't necessarily harmful and where that is harmful, it's of course in the industry. Where there's you know, people people like me, and people that actually use these sulfates and silicones and other ingredients that can work and uh and are shamed for it. So i don't know the curly hair method, it's kind of um a group. So it's a little culty. It'S a little strict and it's not for everyone, so i don't think everyone can follow it. It really comes down to understanding your hair, but yeah there's a lot of misinformation within the curly hair world. So it's so it's a touchy subject. We get a lot of questions about it on the beauty, brains, podcast like every week. People ask different things: there's different subsets like oh, this new group started because they didn't like what this other group was doing, and it's really interesting, yeah and maybe, oh sorry. Well, i guess i just had one question, and maybe you can answer this cassandra yay or day for silicones, we've already kind of went through this silicon broad category, but silicones in general. Are there any specific ones that would be a yay for curly hair? For me, it seems like a good ingredient type to include in most people's hair care routines. But what do you think i mean with i say, yay for silicones. Of course, you have to um decide which ones work for you um and, where you're located in the nation um in miami, no, not so much. I i will probably use a more volatile silicone than a dimethylcone in miami um because um, even though it's you know stealing the hair from the humidity, it doesn't work that well in high humidity in the summer, with curly hair um. Definitely if i go out west coast, yes valerie, do you want to add anything to this yeah i mean i think, silicones are really fantastic and the ways in which these ingredient suppliers can functionalize them for different environments and aspects is pretty pretty um incredible and you Know it gets complicated because, for example, dimethicone is a silicone, comes in many different molecular weights, it's appropriate for certain situations and others, and that's really where it's trial and error in where you live, and what your hair is going through to determine which silicone-based product is Best for you, but i think when i'm asked to formulate silicone-free hair care and achieve the same objectives that you would get out of a silicone based product. It'S really really difficult. There'S not a lot of alternatives that are at least economic that really perform. In the same way, and even then it's like - i really would like to use this silicone um just a lot more. So again, i don't think people should get too wrapped up in silicones in a blind test. I i would guess that most people would pick a silicone containing product over one um that didn't um yeah, i'm in the pro silicon camp. I actually have a couple questions about silicones that i know a lot of people have. If there's silicones in a shampoo is that counter-intuitive is that going to actually wash off the hair? Is that building up as you're trying to cleanse? Why would there be silicones and shampoos? Yes, so there's a technique that we can use called coaservation where you have two uh two compounds in a shampoo and one is attracted to the hair fiber and it forms a complex with a silicone to attach the silicone to the hair fiber. So you think, oh, why would i put silicones in the shampoo it's just going to rinse down the drain, they're actually going to stick to the hair fiber or be substantive in some way and then two, i think it just depends. Um some people, when they formulate with that technique to allow the silicone to deposit on the hair. I think it depends what the follow-up conditioner is. I think you can get a lot of buildup if you're, using this really conditioning, depositing shampoo and then you're putting a conditioner on top of it and then you're getting out and putting a styling product and then you're like. Oh, i want to wash my hair again and then you go back and you're using this really conditioning shampoo and that's why i think all of us have talked about. We use a clarifying shampoo in our routine um. I think that's really important to do, but you can achieve benefits with silicones in shampoos if you formulate properly with different aids or certain silicones are designed to be in shampoos to stick to the hair mel. Did you have another question that you wanted to ask before? I move on to my next question, but i think we'll probably get to later move on uh. So i just have. I guess two actually three, my mom has a question, so i have to ask it but three more questions and then we'll take more of the audience questions. There have been so many questions. Thank you, everyone for joining in and being so engaged in this panel. So i i'm sure everyone is wondering: do you have any top hair care tips that you'd like to leave with our our audience? I'M going to let mel and cassandra take this because again, i'm not a licensed cosmetologist. I can't do my own hair unless it's putting it in a bun with some bobby pins, but to me just use what products you like and what makes you feel good, because when you feel good about your hair, you have an amazing day and it doesn't matter. What'S in the shampoo or conditioner styling product, it's it's really about feeling good and feeling your best. So that's my approach to doing hair, but um i'll leave it to the experts. For me, i think there needs to be more more of a focus on scalp care because um we're getting a lot of product build up on the hair, but the scalp as well, and then environmental issues as well. Um with the scalp and more women are experiencing um alopecia now, so that's a really high concern. So i would i would focus on your scalp, not just your hair, because your scalp is. What'S you know, you're, you know using your scalp. Has the follicles with the nutrients to help your hair grow? So you want to keep that growing in order to style it for sure. Scalp, hair and hair care are two very different things and any given wash day um. You know we're washing our our hair, but really shampoo is for the scalp. I always think who's more for the scalp and conditioner is more for the hair and every time we're doing our hair. We i my number one thing is i i take a look at my hair. I feel like how dry does it feel today? Do i need to do a deep conditioner? How does my scalp feel today? Is it flaky? Is it itchy like what kind of shampoo do i need, and it's really not, that i have an everyday daily routine, my routine really changes based on what the hair needs, so the best hair care tip is really to look at your your own hair and get To know it not just looking at you know everyone else's hair that we see on the internet. It'S really trying to understand our own hair care needs figuring out what works based on the products that we're using um and then and going with the flow. It'S kind of like an intuitive hair care, like you have to go with what works right just for for that day and um yeah learning your own hair care. Well, biologically your body's always changing. So your your levels of you know, um androgens, are probably going up right. You know low you, don't you your body's changing, so you have to think about that too, and that affects how your hair grows and um how it's going to be like, for example, if a woman is pregnant, they have issues before and after with their hair. So you got to think about that and, like you said, melon valley, you have to focus on what works for you and not what everyone's saying on these blogs. So my next question was from one of my patreons and if anyone in the comments are uh watching the video is interested in supporting the science communication we do. We do have a patreon page and we do take some uh questions for the podcast we do. But the patreon question is: do you think the scalp speaking of scalp scalp trend is here to stay in hair care? I think it is, and i think it should be. It'S very important, like i said, um more women are experiencing alopecia now and it's you know, especially in the african-american community, with all a lot of these glycols and the way a lot of these products are formulated and they're not really cleaning their scalp. Well, you know the co-washes are good for the hair tresses, but not for the scalp, so um and i feel like in general, women are, and men are not. You know, washing their hairs, often either so that that can cause a problem not for the hair. But for the scalp you wash your face every day. You know so think about that. But you don't wash your hair every day or your scalp every day. So i think there needs to be uh uh, not only the trend, not only that the trend should grow, but it should be a focus on doing more studies on scalp care and hair care care products, yeah, something cassandra that you said earlier. That really resonated with me was when you said that you make sure that you rinse your scalp very well to get the product off of it earlier, and i think that is so critical. I think one of the flaws, if we can call it that with the curly girl method, is that you know it's not about shampooing really intensely. It'S all about gentle conditioning depositing and if you are not rinsing the product adequately off your scalp and furthermore, the products aren't really designed to be super rinseable from the scalp leaving the product on the skin can be problematic over time, because you have things that build Up you have botanical extracts that are really complex combinations of molecules that can cause skin interactions, fragrance preservatives, not every ingredient, is designed or regulated to be left on the skin, especially these conditioning agents and, if you're not rinsing properly or washing your scalp properly. I think over time it can be an issue, so i i full heartily agree it's something that should be a focus and really uh something that has a lot of education and reinforcement behind it about the. Why and the how will be really critical to having scalp care stay mainstream and my final question from my mom who texted me right before this panel, so her question was: how can someone uh her hair is graying but she's been dyeing it for the past. Like decade, so how can someone with coarse hair change dyed brown to gray without ruining it? She doesn't really want to let it grow out uh, but she also likes. I think she wants to like dye it gray, but because her hair is so coarse, then you'd have to bleach it to get, and it's so dark because she wants to go gray. She wants to go gray, but not be hideous in the process is kind of her question. I really think this is a question for the cosmetologists right i mean hair color is hair color right, it's the same chemistry, i think it's the experience and the expertise of having someone help you um, because if she just stopped coloring her hair and let it grow She'D have this line and her hair would just be growing and it would look. You know like she had six inch roots after a while, but i can let cassandra probably speak to how she would you know color somebody's hair. I would definitely do um and i've done this before several color treatments, um, lightning treatments where i would do like highlights or violage um. So that was gradually. You know growing out and you don't see the line of demarcation like you mentioned, valerie and um, and then slightly um, instead of using a permanent on her roots, just use like a demi so that it kind of blends with the ends that are pre-lightened and like Every six weeks do another pre-lightening treatment and then keep trimming the ends as well. Yeah, especially if she does have really dark hair. It'S it's a process to go lights, and so it's either you're going to commit like a 13-hour day to being in a salon which is also going to be very expensive and you're, going to do. Color removers a full bleach out multiple toners and then maybe get to a color that you like or - and that's obviously i mean no matter what you can, what you do, it's probably going to be compromising to the hair. So it's either you go low and slow. Try to enjoy the process of your natural gray, you're trying to do it. Anyways um, you know it's just it's it's a way of life, it you know just embracing the gray, but it is it's tough. By the way, i would, i would definitely as advice, depending on how long her hair is um, because i did this with my aunt. Her hair was um chin length and i told her i was like look we're not going. You know she didn't want to do like a process. One day process and i was like look. Your hair's gon na grow. We'Re gon na trim. It like you'll, be okay, just just go gray. Let'S just do it, let's just spend those eight hours and just do it start fresh. I don't think she wants to do that. I hope, since covid um, the normal gray roots have become normalized. You know we've seen a lot of people with with the girl out, and i mean it's: it's obviously just a normal uh part of life, and it's really not that big of a deal. I'M sure she looks great either way. So here's a interesting question - and i know valerie you've talked about this quite a few times on the beauty brains. But what are your comments about the allegations of hair loss caused by various cleansing conditioners? I know there have been quite a few over the last decade. Yeah i mean i can't really comment about the wen issue. I have some um insider information on that, but um. I think it goes back to again. The scalp has very specific needs, and a lot of these products are not designed to rinse. Well, like conditioners, are meant to stick to the hair right there, ionically attracted to the hair fiber, so um. I think when you have poor rinse ability and then a method that just reinforces not very great cleansing of the scalp with these low poo to no poo products, i think you get lots of build up and you get you can get some hair loss from that, Especially when you have these ingredients that are left on the skin that shouldn't be met, they're not meant to be left on the skin, they're left on the skin and you're getting some interactions without knowing the actual formulas or manufacturing. Conditions of these um products were manufactured and it's really tough to say and it's just speculation, but i think it's a combination of type of product and method and two uh. Maybe you have some angry people, i don't i don't know i've heard there was maybe like some angry bloggers or something like that. Anyone want to add anything before i start asking our audience questions. So you know in the past year there's besides what you just mentioned with that company um there's another company that had a lot of issues um with curly, hair too and um. I have a lot of insight to the formula and stuff like that as well, but here's the thing um, some of these products are not people are not rinsing these products out. So you well, you have so many methods and like valuement mentioned, you have the co-wash that you know that's a conditional wash like it's not stained on your scalp. Then you have the um, the detangler or the leave-in. Then you have the styling, and some of these have, like you, know, squats and glycols, and all this stuff is going on your scalp and you're, using it every day and then you're washing with a co-wash and not a you, know, sulfate or clarifying shampoo and then You'Re you're you're you're suffocating your follicles, so think about. If you did that to your face and you didn't wash your face for like a week, you got to think about it. That way. So we had a whole bunch of questions about hair oils. Lots of different questions, so maybe we can do an overview about like what to look for in a hair oil. What type of hair oils are there, and then there was another question around: how do i incorporate hair oils like when? Should i use them? What do you think well from a chemistry perspective? Um, you know a lot of people call their product and oil and it's really a blend of silicones, or maybe other oil soluble things, and that's totally fine, and i think, there's also these. You know totally plant-based oils. The thing about oils is it's hard to say: one is better than the other. I really think again. It goes back to your hair type, some trial and error. Some oils are really heavy on hair and only coarse hair can take the full weight of it or, if you have fine hair, there are some oils that will work well for you, depending on what they are. Also, whether you apply wet or dry makes a big difference um for me as a formulator, there's so many variables, even um. If you see two of the same oils on the label, the way that the oil is extracted from the ingredient can make a difference. Um harry and i on the podcast always get into it because they're like ah oils or oils and i'm like no was it cold pressed. Was it solvent extracted? Was it super critical co2 extracted? You can get different components out of it and for me, from a texture point of view, they feel different. So i never like to just blanket all the oils together but um. It is not easy to pick an oil for your hair um. At least i don't have a method for it: uh without some trial and error, to know what your hair can and can't take. No and if the hairstylist have any recommendations, yeah so with um hair oils um, i i formulate a lot of hair oils um for curly, hair and ethnic hair um, and you know people use it a lot for scalp treatments um. They usually with you know, coily, hair, kinky hair. You know you need a lot more oils because, like the oil from your hair follicles is not, you know going down the hair shaft, so it really depends on type of hair. You have and like valerie said, if you have like straight thin, hair like there are very little bit of oils in the category that you can use and you're gon na have to use very little bit of that oil also so also depends, but as far as Using hair oils i would for styling, i would just use a very light oil and and sparingly into the hair and try to avoid the hair scalp, but for a scalp treatment. Um that's going to be rinsed off the next day, then you know you can use coconut oil or whatever you want to use and then make sure you shampoo it out correct. I do have a favorite oil by the way broccoli seed oil - it's not a sexy one um, but i really do like that. For my hair type, which is um, it's not coarse. I have like male leg hair for hair um. It'S not coarse in texture, just like very thick and stiff um. I do like broccoli seed oil for my hair. I don't know if you guys have a favorite hair oil smell like broccoli. No, i mean it just smells kind of vegetable yeah mel. Do you have any thoughts on this or maybe, and there was also a question from the audience you were talking about - a hair oil during your uh hair care routine. In that first question, the question was: what kind of hair oil are you using? I have so many different they're called hair oils, but really they're serums like a lot of the ones that i use. They are a blend of silicones and another type of of oils, and i find those work really well for my hair because my hair is high. Porosity, it is damaged um, it's been colored, it's been bleached, it's been through a lot. Also, i find my hair is just naturally a little bit higher porosity just from the way that it grows out of my head. Sometimes curly hair is is like that. So i find that definitely using a serum in my routine serum oil is very beneficial, especially towards the end of the routine. It almost helps to lock it all in, like, like valerie, was saying the cuticle um, the cuticle over our hair acts as like shingles on a roof. It protects everything and when you have high porosity hair and when you have a damaged cuticle, the silicones and oils and serums that you're putting on, helps to almost fill in the holes and repair that barrier and and just make up for for. What'S lost. So, by using hair oils in my routine, it's very important after my hair has been dried after i've applied all my moisturizing styling products and while my hair is still conditioned, so i can keep it conditioned and then also try to keep out some moisture. But i don't look to hair oils to moisturize my hair. I think that's a really big misconception. People think that oils themselves are moisturizing when really they're, i feel like they're, more lubricating um and then they they also have some sealing abilities. So, that's why you want to use it once your hair is already nice and moisturized so towards the end of a routine uh, and this reminds me of i guess, a a misnomer in marketing that i brought up on my instagram feed a few a few weeks Ago, i think about moisturization in hair care and why we're really after lubrication and not moisturization or hydration, valerie you're nodding your head and i feel, like you have more to say, do you want to add you know it's interesting when we try to do um clinical Studies to validate claims testing, we have to come up with all these methods in the lab, and you know when people when hair actually has an increased water content. It doesn't feel that good and people think when they're, adding hydration they want to add water.