Celebrity Hair Stylist Verona White Talks About Hair Care And Women'S Health

Hello and welcome to another episode of conversations with alison j, the journey to here, i'm your host, alison j. Today, i'm delighted to welcome a guest who is also a dear friend, verona. White verona is a seasoned hairstylist who has been in the hair industry for almost 30 years. Her career has gone from strength to strength, starting at birmingham college in the uk, and then she ventured into the city of london, where she owned three hair salons and worked with high profile celebrities and clients. She studied to be a professional wig maker and began teaching students in china, india, italy and jamaica to be wig technicians using sewing machines. Her passion for hair kept growing as she also mentored and taught several hairdressers. Verona became increasingly concerned about the dangers and, in some cases, toxic chemicals used in products. So, as all good entrepreneurs do she decided to do something about it and she started a private group called afro hair growth challenge two years ago in 2018, which has now grown to a membership base of over 8 000. after numerous emails and phone calls inquiring for More information verona decided to write a book 20 diy recipes for afro curly hair. All of her products from her company can be found on www.afrohairgrowthchallenge.com, and here i'm showing all those who are going to be watching. This on youtube is a copy of her book that i bought, and all this hair that you can see on my head or 100 natural is as a result of a lot of the products that verona has told me about that. I use in my own hair all a hundred percent natural, so verona, thank you so much for joining us and welcome that it has been truly remarkable because outside of hair, i've known you anyway. Yes, for the longest time, like a very long time - yeah - probably nearly 40 years - probably nearly 40 years - yeah yeah. Yes, i would say about that, since i was 13 12 13 yeah yeah and i remember um one of your first salons when it was in wembley, and i remember sitting there and you doing my hair and things like always loved how you did my hair and Then, with people moving around, i moved around and so on. I then obviously went to other hairdressers that were more convenient but never lost touch with you, no and always keeping an eye on what you're doing and just like when yeah. So it really is an honor and a privilege to sit here to talk to you today and first of all foreign. I would like to share your journey to hairdressing because people what they do they look at somebody. That'S they look at today and they don't realize the journey, the story, the struggle that actually went behind coming because it's not always a bed of roses. Is it you don't just end up here? It'S i mean there's a lot of especially young girls, that you know they want me to to mentor them and say how did you get into hairdressing? How did you get into celebrity hairstyling, but it comes with a lot of different things. What you you kind of, are there like, for instance, before they go on a show or before they go on holiday and then you're the first one that they see when they come back so a lot of them. You kind of build up like a a relationship with them. Um and you know, there's highs and there's lows: it's hard work. It'S consistency. There'S you know resilience where you've just got to be strong, whether you like it or not, and do your job but saying that i i absolutely i i i i've enjoyed it and i'm still enjoying it um because you know no two days are the same. You know, obviously, when we're out of luck down, um yeah and i've been blessed to have some absolutely amazing clients, so yeah it's been good with all. So why hairdressing? Because to be honest, when i think about hair dressing yeah, i don't want to have my hands in my own hair. Much less countless! I know people so why hairdressing? Well, you know back in the day, gosh try telling our parents that we want to be a hairdresser chester. My mom, she said hell to the no like no way, and i was like so i started nursing. I did start nursing. You know six months on um. I worked in a care home as well and then i had to wash a corpse like a dead one like, and i was i said to mom like no like the next day i was like i was traumatized, and then i had my sister. You know my sister, she he was singing at the time and you know doing like little tours and just wanted um hair extensions and i think one of my friends i don't know they came to our house and my sister says: can you do the heritage? I says because i was always messing about with hair, but then i did it. I mean the first time i did it. I think it fell out within a day and then we kept on doing it and then you know she used to have the mic and say right: can you cut the hair? Because when i put my head back, i want my hair to fall a certain way in the layers. So then you know i started to do plaits and um weaves and things like that and then i went to college to actually say right. You know what i'm going to take this series and i said to my mom: i promise you that i'm gon na go to as high as i can go. You know so when my mom like knew oh, so she could do hair and she was there she's like oh okay, okay, you know now do their hair and she loved it and the rest is history. Oh yeah, that's wonderful and it's funny that you should say that um doing hair, because that's what a lot of us kind of grew up doing. We all know how to do hair yeah in the greek and bless bless their hearts, our parents, it's! I think. It'S not because they weren't encouraging or supportive, but the time that they were living in and the generation that they are. You needed a proper job. You needed to be like you did, go either a nurse or go or a second hand like hairdressing was not a proper job to them like wait, no way, you know so yeah and if you think about it, though, now that you're saying that i think i'm Thinking but you tend to find more people will go to their hairdressers more often than they will see a nurse or a doctor. So the chances are you not until you mention it. I didn't even think about it. In that terms, oh yeah, about every couple of weeks or right, you know i i see you know. Sometimes i see them more than their friends. You know um, because you know that they want their hair done a certain way and yeah it's it's good. That is so interesting and now that we think about it's like yeah, and i can remember, i would see my hairdresser sometimes more than i would see my friends because guess who you're going to see before you go out to see those friends yeah? Yes, exactly it's like yeah yeah. So when i was having my hair relaxed, i think it was every six to eight weeks. I was in a chair and then, if i was getting it washed in between or and the times when i used to keep it short and keep it kept into a style. You know, after a couple of weeks, there's some growth. You want. It shaped up and marked up so yeah like you, don't we don't like in those days you just don't do roots like you know it was at the salon every two weeks and don't let those roots show and where we, you know, especially the people. We grew up amongst, like everybody, had to look good, your hair, your clothes, your skin, like everything, so that was it's a c. It still is a serious thing to us. You know yeah, and so let me ask you your first celebrity client because i know people's like well. How do you get a celebrity client, okay, yeah? So i i i had my shop in in wembley and my first celebrity client was michelle gale. I remember sitting in a gym: yeah yeah she's. Oh, i love that girl. But yes, she was my first um celebrity client because i came from birmingham and you know came to live in london, so they really know loads of people's. I think he's probably a brave step to say right, i'm just gon na open the salon, but i worked like three years in london before but anyway yeah she came in. She like my hair was blonde and natural. I remember yeah, oh my god, and what she liked the style that i had and we we had a shop. You know where we used to sell all kind of products, and everything like that and i said, come to the salon come to the salon and she came and then i used to do her hair and you know like twists, and you know different kind of thousand From then, then, she introduced me to different friends who was in in the business and then they introduced me to their friends and then it just grew, and i i think i don't know in that industry they like to know that they can trust you that's like The number one thing um to be in their space and you know just to respect them and and just to know and understand what they need. You know. So, yes, it was my first one. Okay, yes, because i didn't realize she was your first one, but i remember um visiting your salon in wembley to get my hair done and she was in the chair next to me because those were the days i think she was in eastenders at the time right. Maybe i don't know if she was at that time. I can't remember uh, but i i know she even was singing or something um. She'S always you know, michelle is just there for us, she's, probably the first black people. Well, not black people, but you know she she's busy yeah, and i can appreciate that and being an actress, a singer, because i remember those days very, very well and just giving thanks really that she started to make those introductions, because you know what it's like. So many times we can, we can be a little selfish and want to keep things and people to us. Yeah. Oh no yeah. She she's the sort of person where, if she's got it good, then everybody has to have it good she's. He hasn't got a selfish bone in her body at all. That is so good. So so then you were doing hair as we say, and then your celebrity client base grew, as did your silence, because you had three yeah. So talk us through what happened next, so you went through the salons and then is it because you had a passion for wig making and protective hairstyling or because more people and that's the way the world was going wigs. So you just wanted. I always um always had a passion for natural hair and natural products. Like i used to have my salon and there's me and one of my um one of my um um, i don't like to call them workers um anthony. She used to work for me and we used to mix up aloe vera and oil into like conditioner and because we just wanted our clients just to have the best looking hair. So i wasn't satisfied. I'Ve never really been satisfied with the products. That'S out there and you know i'm thinking well. If the center's got aloe vera, it hasn't really got that much aloe vera in there um. So you know i i used to make get the aloe vera and say: can you slice this and then we put the oil? Then we used to mix it, and everybody's hair was just amazing, so yeah i've always had the passion for it, but never thought i'd. Make a career out of it. You know so and i for one i'm grateful that you did by the way, because i don't i'm just thinking about over the years, because i remember, and you know just putting it all out there and just giving away our age now v. So i remember i got my hair done for the first time with chemical that the that was my 13th birthday present. I remember it started in me. What do you want for your birthday - and i said right at the time curly prime was the big thing right or curly, hair jerry curl. That was the big thing at the time. So that's what i said i wanted for my birthday present, and that was right. I'M 13 then um in a few months time, six months time, i'm gon na be 50, and so i only started the older, the new girl i'm 52 next month. Well, i'm telling you i don't know where the years have gone, i'm serious like wow! When did that happen, but yeah so from the age of 13? To when i started the natural hair journey, because the last time i relaxed my hair, it would have been. I think what april of no march was the last time i relaxed my hair march of 2018, so the age of 13, which would have been what 1984 whoa right through to 2018. yeah yeah and the only time there's every once in a while. I would put my hair in um like braids and extensions and plaits for a few months, just to give my hair a break, but then, as soon as i took it out so like, i would probably do it for about um. What i'd say for about four or six months every year, but then it's right back into getting my hair relaxed right back into it, and, to be honest i must admit, i hated it because my scalp was so sensitive. I don't know if there was ever a time i didn't burn, and that was the thing in those days there wasn't like a lot of people who would um consider that you know you can't just relax hair without it being burnt, but saying that you know there's A lot of people, if you say right it's time for it to come out, they'll, be like no you'd want it burnt out, and you know what it is. I think it's because, because i know we thought the longer it was in the straighter. Your hair was gon na be right, it was yeah, it wasn't, it wasn't the case. It actually scarred a lot of people. I can imagine because yeah, because i remember some of the days where it was um, quite bad and so the hairdresser and you're doing that whole swish swish right wash your voice because you just want it straight yeah and but then two days later, when you're getting Up and you're combing it and you realize that the comb's not there's a certain part that that and because there's actually but those people that have never that have fortunately never either their hair like burnt through relaxers or never needed to use a relaxer if yeah, hopefully A burn, a flesh, chemical burn that would scab up right and then and just like any wound where you would have to wait for it to the scab to heal like a week or so it was kind of like, but not knowing how damaging it was um To the air, but luckily we've all grown up and grown out of that, and you know, we've moved on and know that natural is best yeah, but you feel there's a lot of people still struggling with that because you know, as i was saying, i remember the Days when i'd have burns - and you know they say that you're supposed to wait for it to heal it, i'm just like listen. I was that person like hurry up and get her. I was that person picking it out like come on yeah. I because i didn't want to be out and about, and then it's like this scab started to lift and people had saw this thing in my head. So i would be that like trying to weeping and when we think about that we just but yet it was something that we all still like, went through and endured, because we wanted that. That look yeah then because you wanted that. Look. But it's so sad because when we think about okay, why did we want that? Look? And that is really because we were always told through and when i say told i don't mean somebody literally came up to you and told you you were ugly, but we were told through advertising. We were told through movies. We were told through all of the experience. Yeah medium, that our natural self, our natural hair, was not beautiful, because you didn't see anybody with everybody with natural hair like exactly and when you did, they were a source of ridicule. Yes, yes, it was it just wasn't i mean the closest you would get if somebody that's really light skinned and you know big curly, hair um, it's only in the last like few years that you've actually kind of seen that you know you can have an afro And it's only in the last i'd say a couple of months: you've actually seen dark skinned, um black people, um, yeah and letting them know you are beautiful. You know - and i know something that one of the things i kind of struggled with coming up, because it was that whole european model that we that mold that we all had to try to fit into, because that was like beauty, because i said this young lady And i did a podcast with her and i don't know if you ever heard this when um she did a ted talk, because she saw the casting call for the movie um straight out of compton right and i don't and it was. It was so shocking because they categorized women's into group, a b c and d group a - and i hope i get this right group a was the um, the natural long flowing hair that have to be very shapely pretty and attractive, and you have to be light. Skin or like or hispanic or mixed race, or something like that, that was group, a group b, they said the prototype for group b, was beyonce, so think about this. Oh, my gosh, that's just not nice yeah for real and if you think about beyonce who, in the world whether you know any of her songs, yes or no, who in the world has never heard of or seen beyonce. But she was group b, not even a she wasn't, even in the a list that was so that style was group, three group c she's in group b b. You want to say i'm just like okay, so and group c was um. I would need to have long hair could wear a weave medium complexion and still have to be shapely group d - oh overweight and unhealthy - that was group d whoa and i'm condensed in it. But that was group a b c and d so and that's serious yeah and straight out of compton was what 2015 so we're not talking about back in the 60s, 70s 80s 90s we're talking about 2015., so black dark-skinned black women are were still and in some Respects are still seen as witnesses we're loud they're unclear to have short, hair and unhealthy, whereas only again going back to those people that fit in that kind of european long flowing, hair slim shapely mold, is what is considered beautiful and attractive. So it's really no surprise that some people are still struggling yeah. They are our natural skin. Our natural hair is actually beautiful. Yes, it is, it is it it is, and it's to embrace us, because you know there's a lot of damage. That'S been done over the years um and i know in my group some people felt, oh, my goodness, i'm doing my hair, but i don't feel grooved and i had to get them through this by letting them introduce themselves to who they are by looking in the Mirror and telling, and getting used to yourself like putting your makeup on. You know just getting used to your look before you go out in the world, so you can basically just feel right. Okay, i'm ready for this and i'm ready for whatever anybody's going to tell me. But i am beautiful um because, like you said that there's this narrative of what society says, beauty should look like, but everything that god made is beautiful, every human being, whether you know it's good in your eyesight, but it's good in somebody's house we're all beautiful yeah. It'S not just us as black people, everyone, you know. So we've got to really say right who who the authentic? Who is the authentic me? You know strip back yourself and then introduce yourself, because sometimes you you don't do some. You know - and i know a lot of people will never see their natural hair, don't want to see their natural hair, don't want to be bothered to do their natural hair because they don't like what they see. So you know this is why you know having this group. You know i mean i initially because my hair, like fell out, kept on falling out for the first year um of doing my hair and i was devastated and then you know it was just and it took me some time as well. I mean i used to have a little bit of natural hair, but it still took me time when i decided i am not wearing no weaves nothing. I just want my natural hair and i'm just going to do different styles, and i'm just going to embrace myself, and i remember i went out to dinner with um. I think there was a three of us and all of them had the weave. You know what i put in and i was like. Oh my god. What am i doing? I need my weave back. Oh no, then i i just had to go through that. I just had to go through it and say right and and having the group also made me accountable. So it's probably having a friend and letting them have an opinion of of what you know. Your your hairstyles, you know different things that you can do and and knowing that it's okay and feel beautiful and and tell yourself every day i am beautiful. I am wonderfully made, you know and then eventually, once you've made it up in your mind, ain't, nobody gon na, tell you nothing as the americans say, and that is so true because um i wrote an article recently called the gaslighting of black people. I i didn't want it to just be me, just literally vomiting words on a page, so i started into things and i i started to look into in places and into - and this is strange in, like 2019 2020, some places in the us were actually needing to Pass laws so that employers did not discriminate against black women for wearing their natural hair. Are you serious serious? I kid you not and like there are some states i'll i'll. Look it up and i'll share it with you i'll bring up the article because it's i my research and i looked into it. I think california, delaware. There were actually a few places that have had to pass as law and it's called the care. I think it was called the hair care act, i'm going to bring it up, because i should have pulled it up before yeah gosh, but seriously there are places that was in new york was it. I think new york was one of the places new york, california and there's a few other states that have maryland. I think is one thankfully, because that's where i live now, so i can go to work with my hair out all night, okay yeah, but so, if you think about it, this is just yeah. Honestly, honestly, i kid you not. There are places that have had to pass it as a law because of how women what black women were being discriminated about, their hair god seriously. So is it any wonder, then, that some black women don't want to see their own hair if it's going to cause all of these types of things, yeah, that's serious, very serious. You know but um. As i said, the more of us they see with our natural hair, it's the more that people would just get used to it um. This is it. You know with the it's: it's it's it's as natural as they're gon na see so, and i think it's because they don't see enough of us with it. That'S why they think. What'S going on here, you know that, like a little sponge or this or you know it's it's, you know, i've heard lots of different comments and it knocks people, but i i i just tell people this is this. Is my hair, this it's it's. It'S me, you know all the the curls, the kinks. It'S me it's all me and one thing i would say because i'd say that god don't make a mistake, he doesn't make a mistake. So why are we trying to say right? Okay, have it any otherwise, but it you know it all comes down to your self-esteem and also embracing yourself, yeah, and also it's probably not even that some people don't just don't know how to handle their hair. They just don't know what to put in they. Just don't know so. This is the reason why you know i. I write this book because i'm getting so many emails, the same questions and i'm thinking well, let me put everything in one place and then people now people know what type of hair, how to measure their porosity. What kind of products are good for their hair? I mean it's all in there. You know so and if i want to touch on the products we were using and our health, but before i do that, i just wanted to share with you. So here it is, you have the it's called the crown act and that it stands for um hold on a second. It stands for create a respectful and open world for natural hair. The crown act was created in 2019 to ensure protection against discrimination based on wearing your natural hair, so yeah yeah yep as well, wow yeah so against this protection against discrimination based on race, based hairstyles, by extending statutory protection to higher texture and protective styles, such as Braids locks twists and knots in the workplace and public schools, because you know how many yeah do you know how many children were being sent home because they had locks in there yeah yeah we've had them here in england, yeah right, they call it the fashionable name For it now is called bantu knots, but you know we were calling it chinese bumps right, yeah things like that yeah so now and looking it up discrimination based on hair texture in the united states. California was the first state to pass the crown act, and this was only in 2019 that california people do, because when you were saying about some people saying that they didn't feel groomed as a result, i think a lot of it is as a result of being Made to feel that way because of people's reactions when we wore our nation do whatever we want and still feel okay. You know, because i remember you saying that, and i didn't i this it, i it's the for the first time i noticed it was. I think this would have been back in oh gosh. What year are we in there? 2020? So it's probably about 2014 or 15.. We interviewed a young lady for the front desk of the company that i worked for and she was. She was an um, a black woman, and she got the job and everything i think it was her first and i well. I knew that she had natural hair, but she had it all back, and so, when she came for her first day, she had her hair out right. My boss, who i can safely say that woman did not like me and was looking for any reason to fire me anyway: okay, yeah yeah. She just other people, saw and noticed it as well, and so she came to me and she made a remark and a reference about her hair and i said - and i had to say to her: no, that is her natural hair and she is free. Yeah wear her natural hair as long as it is not anything. That'S looking completely unkempt like she just got up out of bed and didn't comb her hair, but i said i had to say something and up until that point, i've never been in the workplace and heard somebody made. That kind of remark don't get me wrong. Yeah. I'Ve been there where i've been in the workplace and people have asked to touch my hair, and i just says touch it. If you know, if you, if you don't like your hand, then please by all means reach out and yeah, basically because it's like, why do you want to touch my hair yeah? But it was more that that whole curiosity, because growing up, they all thought that our hair felt like steel wool or brillo pads yeah yeah, that the the whole touch and you're just fascinating to them. I can understand their fascination, but the rule is don't touch it. Yeah, you know because what what what when, if you, if you look at from their point of view, they've got straight hair and most people they see has got straight um hair. So this is kind of like we're like a museum to them, like some people have even never seen black hair out. You know afro hair out so but don't touch the hair. But the thing is when, in the days when i used to be asked, if they can touch my hair, my hair was relaxed wow. Yes, my hair wow yeah, because the truth is i've, never worn. My natural hair, like this just out i and for one at the time i was living in florida so that you know what the humidity would have done to my hair anyway, so that there was. That would just definitely know that my hair was being yeah. But this was in the days when my hair was relaxed living in london and people would ask to touch my hair. The one where the derogatory remark was made was well after i moved here to the us and living in florida, and this was in miami, and my supervisor made a remark about the young lady's hair like well. That'S not what it was, i'm not. Actually, that was how it was. She just had it all um tied back in a ponytail like that yeah just wearing her hair loose and is wearing her hair down and that's the first time. I'Ve actually ever heard that kind of derogatory remark about natural hair and then a couple of years later i made the decision to go natural and in writing that article last year and it wasn't meant to be on hair, if i'm honest, but the more research. I was doing into how people of color are treated around the world. That is, that biggest thing. The crown act, and i thought my lord. There is actually a thing where they had to pass a law yeah that, because that means it was oh, my goodness yeah honestly, i was stunned when i was um when i did that research yesterday and i was looking um for places with states that have it Because so it's like um, i'm going i'm going to find some of the states, but i definitely know right. You'Ve got maryland new jersey, california, virginia how 50 colorado so yeah. So a few states yeah they've got that law. There um just terrible that we've had to have a law. That means that there must have been you know they don't make a law unless it's like a predominantly thing going on yeah well done to those who stood up for it and and had this law passed. You know so i mean we still got a you know a long way to go, but we're getting there. You know slowly but surely absolutely absolutely. I i do believe that we are getting there and - and it's a good thing - it's a little surprising - that it has to be done this way, but you know what it like. You said: we are getting there so um. So here it is. I'Ve got it. So some of the state, so new york, new jersey, virginia it's and unfortunately, when you think about the number of states there are in the us that it's only what california that was july, california and new york were both july 2019, thursday december 2019, virginia colorado, washington, Yeah yeah virginia colorado, washington march 2020 and maryland may of 2020, so not even a year not - and this is not even a year - i mean it's been a long time coming i mean we've had the the the black lives matter, movement, you know and little little Things have happened, um and you know, as i said, we have to pave the way for the next generation, so each generation we make it easier for them. So this is. This is great. This is a great thing and, and it is a start because there's 50 states or 52 depending on where you look between 50 and 52 states, depending on where you look so still a long way, yeah, but there's only seven wow seven states have passed the crown Act and like you said the fact that it had to even be passed as an act that says yeah. It just proves how much discrimination but, as i said coming from you know when slavery was abolished, and you know there's silent racism going on in a lot of places. You know so, but our hair must must keep healthy yeah and you must know what to do with it, and i think that's like the biggest thing in a lot of people until um, andrew walker, which is over with his hair stylist. He introduced all their 4c. A b and everybody was like what are these numbers? What are these letters? You know, and it was just hard. How do i know my 4c? How do i know if i'm low porosity and that's what i put in the book, how to tell you know what type you are, how to tell whether your low porosity high porosity, because this all makes a difference, some people don't think um. It does, and this is why i get annoyed with people who are not qualified to really understand afro, hair and they're just out there as youtubers. Oh, i did this and i did that and knowing that what works for you doesn't work for everyone. So my thing is: is educating people um on you know what? What is your hair type? What what you know, because your hair might look like mine, but then your your porosity, your cuticles, are different. Yours might be open, mine might be closed and then people follow these people and they haven't done. No. You know full education on each other and then that their hair, just breaks or they're, not understanding or they just say, go and use this product go and use that product where there's loads of chemicals in that product, even though it's just shampoo or loads of chemicals. In you know, we've got to be a bit more conscious about all of this, so i would say in my book you know it's not even a sales pitch, it's just it's just a one. Stop sim! It'S very i've done it so simple. So it's not too scientific um for people to understand um what their hair is and what it's all about and why it reacts the way it does. You know we talk about menopause. We talk about. You know different things. You know so and one of the things i want to talk to you about as well, because we've spoken about hair and the look of hair and having happy hair. But what a lot of people don't realize is the direct correlation between some of the things we are using on our hair, the chemicals in these products and our actual physical health yeah. It'S so honestly, there's there's products. I'Ve had i've had arguments, i don't care i've. Actually gone to them and say why is this in your product like this isn't good? This is potentially linked to cancer. It'S it's linked to um fibroids, it's linked to um dementia. All that says! Well, it's only naught point one point. I says: okay, that naught point. One over thirty years amounts to something and we don't know, there's a new there's, a new like illness amongst us, you know whether it be more cancerous or whether it be more of us are getting more um, um, fibroids or dementia. You know, and i think what is the common denominator thing, that we all use you know amongst us and then you know i found ingredients like in the relaxer um. You know what what's going on and you know if you do burn and things that can enter your bloodstream and you know and things that seep in um. We have to understand that these products, it's like. Okay, one of my um friends she's got a a company and it's magnesium and you know she's it's very good for the body. You know you need magnesium and it can enter through. You know your skin and she gave me this cream fantastic cream, um, and then i could feel it working through my hands like i could feel it. So i'm thinking well, if this can happen like this, then the creams, not only even on our hair and all that what we put on can enter into our system. You know and the the body's got this mechanism that when you when something's entering and it's firing, then it doesn't deal with it too. Well, you know like something as cancer. Just don't just come. You know that there's something that's activated, because we've all got these lying cells in us, but if something's there and it's not supposed to be there, it obviously turns toxic or whatever, and then it affects your body and the more research i did into these ingredients. I'M like whoa, like it, took me a long time over the years to check it and to thinking well they're, just saying that and then it was actually true like the formolder hydrate. I never could say that word. You know when that first come along, you had to wear glasses and masks thinking but yeah we're putting that directly on our scalp like what our brain yeah, but but the atmosphere of the smoke from it. You couldn't have it in your system. So i'm saying well, if you can't have it in your system and it's going in your eyes, then this is getting lodged into something and it's causing something so now they've found out that for my promot for mildred hydrate is just not good right. So that can turn cancerous as well. So i'm, like you know, first of all, it was a big craze yeah, but then, when i found out about it, i don't even want to be in a cellar where it's there, because it's it's dangerous to the hair, not to the head to your system. Yeah go back to your point. If you have to wear a mask and gloves, and just the fumes are toxic, then if the fumes are toxic and it's toxic for your hand to touch it, then my goodness, what is it doing when it actually is making contact? Yep again, if just the fumes alone you're supposed to protect yourself again, yeah it it's it's it's it's the thing where i'm so i'm so adamant, i'm so like you know, i can't force people, but i just say: let's go as natural close to natural, as we Can you know all these chemicals are not doing great for us? So what do we choose our health or to look good? You know i choose my health, you know the thing is you can be happy and look good, because for all of those for all of you look at how beautiful your hair is with your curls and the lens, and my honestly, if you, if you're watching this On youtube, my hair is i'm going to go zoom close up to the camera, my hair yeah 100 natural, my hair was washed yesterday yeah and youtube, and so this is a hundred percent natural. It'S a bit bigger. I didn't just take it out of the braids, because i wanted to show it in its fullness for the purpose of it: okay, listen this big hair and i'm just like who is this it's grown like longer than when you had it relaxed yeah. Now, in fact, no when i had it relaxed, it was longer than this the longest. Everything is probably like just past, like my just the black above my bra, so this is actually almost there, but wow yeah, but this is like only since this is in just over a year and a half though oh my gosh yeah. This is only like: your hair grows quick yeah. This is this is only 20 months yeah, because that first picture i sent you of the big chop was june 2019. Oh, my gosh. It was like what an inch and a half to two inches of hair. After i just cut out all the relaxer and now february 2021 cheese yeah, we like some hair man, yeah, happy hair man, happy hair kids and when she blew it out yesterday, it was just thinking. Okay and it's like she blew it out and she took the picture i i knew it had grown, but it's not until she's grown yeah, because normally what i do is wash my hair. Don'T i don't blow dry it straight, just enough to get all the water out and just and just braid it back. That'S it you're right: okay, okay! Okay! So when you put it in small braids, it depends because sometimes i just put it like braid it all back when i'm just wearing wigs or sometimes i just put it in small braids when i'm having like the um extension hair added okay yeah. So i'm not really seeing my own hair blown out okay, yeah yeah. So while we're going through i've actually taken like all the pictures i sent you i'm going to put them up and share them so that anybody watching can actually see for them yeah. So they know - and i know excuse me - i'm not and i'm not saying this to be conceited. I am beautiful. So therefore it is the case of you: don't have to choose your health over beauty, no, not at all. We just we just don't and we should never like apologize. I am beautiful. I am not going to apologize if somebody says i'm beautiful. Yes, i am, and i inject that into my children as well to we're not apologizing. We are beautiful, you know some people say well, they're, not that's to your eyes. So in my eyes, i'm good, so the confidence is going to come from within, but lately you know going back to our the chemicals. You know it's it's it's important that we, you know we kind of wean ourselves off certain. Can i mean even jails? If you want to use a gel, you can use flax seeds and you can boil them. You know, there's different things. You can use aloe vera and use that as a gel as well like the flax seeds, the more you know, the less you boil, you can get the thicker one out of it. That is a gel and that's a natural gel. You can put your oils in there, i mean for me, there's everything out there, that's natural with the herbs and whatever you know. Obviously, you can't 100 get away from conditioners unless you're going to use like avocado and honey. I mean, i think i've got some in the book there, but you know if you, if you're using um conditioner, then use one with no sulfates and and no parabens and that in there, so you know all those that the dangerous products are like stripped back. You know, because you know on our website: we we don't use no sulfates or anything like that, but to get it out on the shelf. You know you've got to kind of use. Um like the vitamin e. You know all that, but um just don't have to you. Just don't have to do it and you know, as your young ones are coming up, then you know it's good to introduce them to natural products and let it just be a thing just to have natural products, and it's funny you're saying that about the hair, because And you mentioned about um menopause and i'm going to want to go on to that because the hormones in some of these things, i was having a conversation with a gentleman that i work with and he's he's been having um these conversations, and he mentioned to me And i thought this was fascinating and unfortunately i didn't have time to dig deeper into it. So, yesterday evening, when we were talking, he mentioned about something he's um saw where these parents they had these young children. I believe they were under the age of 10 right. They started to develop like adolescents and like pubic hairs, and things like that and they're like and and they're, just like what is going on, and it was actually i mean something quite alarming, because the children were young enough to still be bathed by their parents. Kind of thing, yeah notice they were developing and developing um pubic, hair yeah, and so they they went. They actually took the children to the doctor and found out. It was some of the products they were using on this yep in 100 years, yeah rigor in yeah. In children yeah yeah yeah, that is so true that is so true. A lot of the products have got har my home on triggers, where we have our young girls going into menopause much earlier than they'd want to. You know um, and these are because i'm telling you that that the the ingredients in some of these products are so if you, if, if i was to really expose like certain companies, which i i never mentioned any brands, i'm just saying: do your research um, you Know a lot of the uh ingredients they are. You have to use like an italic kind of thing, but that there's certain ingredients, you know - and i i would say to anybody just do your research go in the computer, use google as your best friend and know what are the side effects, because everything has a Side effects - or you know of this like if you have tablets from the doctor, they say that this is the side effect from it. You know, but it's not because it's topical that it it's not affecting us. It is affecting us in some way or another and us as black people. We are because i know my my white friends. They don't use cream like we do like it's religion for us. Oh gosh, yeah, that's just part of it from the day. You'Re born that cream's going all over you like smoking it right in, but if we even minimize it, the chemicals that go on our body um and and start to understand what it is, then i think you know. Eventually, you know these things like hormone triggers and things like that. It eliminates the more natural we come because nature works with nature: natural works with natural, so you wouldn't go wrong. So, hence why i i'm i'm preaching it. So i'm shouting it please. You know so. Yeah - and it's your point about because not because it because that's and a lot of people i should say, let me put it another way - a lot of people think where it is only harmful when you ingest it not stopping to think about the effects of topical Treatments because if we think about it this way as well and and i think, a lot more people - it's um, the light bulb - is going off. So to speak, because i was talking to a young lady yesterday and i was telling her about it and and because at the moment i'm just showing off on everybody about my hair, i'm like my hair's, not yeah. It'S not even the length i'm showing off about. To be honest, it's the fact that my hair is a hundred percent natural yeah, and we were talking about um things that we use and things saying just because you do not ingest, it doesn't mean it's not harmful. Primary prime prime example, the lawsuits going on about what talcum powder yep didn't use powder when we were growing up, and i was saying that because she's already like that was the in thing she was born and raised in jamaica, and, i said remember back in the Day you would go to jamaica if you were larger they would. You know, you'd put it like for personal hygiene yeah. You just make sure that everything's dry with that, but you didn't perspire. So you didn't sweat, and so nobody ever to my knowledge ingested powder. But yet here we are in 2020 2021 and there are lawsuits because of people suffering illnesses as a result of putting powder talcum powder on topically on your skin. Yes, you don't just have to ingest it for it to be dangerous. Yeah! That'S right! Yeah! It'S it's! So i'm saying you know what that's what we've got to understand. Is that not because it's ingested we've got to get that we've got to get it because i i'm well, i'm i'm anti-tablet, i'm i i have to be so ill to be even taking anything anyway um. So oh my gosh, i i i mean. I remember when my daughter, when she had eczema when she was, you know a little a little bit younger and then we kept on going to the doctor and he's giving these cream and just kept making her skin lighter. And i actually and - and you know it was a wrong thing, but you know i signed off that i actually signed off the doctor for about a year because i didn't want to go back or just thinking. I'Ve got access to actually go there because you know, i think well, i might be tempted, so i started to mix like aloe vera and shea butter and all those kind of things and as skin started to heal, um and come back. You know nicely because when this cream ran out, then her skin would get about three times darker. You know and i'm thinking well, what is this doing to her? You know, so i ain't completely changing the pigment of her skin. Yes, it was terrible. So that's when i knew that you know what this this whole thing of, depending on another company, unless it's a trusted company, because the certain companies that i trust, because i know the owner - i i know the passion for what they're doing and i recommend them. But if you can't really get to you know the people to say well, what is this ingredient? What is this going to do to me or discuss? What'S in the ingredient? Leave it alone, leave it alone. You know and and go to what people recommend and you know, have a conversation with the company if you're worried about it and - and that is so true because if you think about it, a lot of us, we will buy something from a name brand that we Recognize because it's a large name brand and we've probably been using it for years growing up, we've used it. But yet we have no idea. We know in these things and what it's, what is seeping into our skin and into our system and doing because, if we think about it, um and studies will show i'm not just saying this - that black women suffer from fibroids more than any other ethnicity. That'S right! That'S right, there's got to be something there. What is it and it has, and studies again have shown that the correlation is the products being used, we're using not taking not what we're ingesting, what we're putting in on our skin. So if that is the case, only god knows what else it is doing, because now you find a lot of black people suffering from dementia and alzheimer's, and all of that there's yeah we've got to eliminate what we think is going wrong. I mean there's other factors of different things for our foods and whatever, but we've got to eliminate in our power what what we can um. You know this is why there's a there's, a guy that i i follow, you know and um he's named patrick delves. I think he's from grenada or whatever, and you know he tells us about the different herbs and the things that we can ingest and what we can put on our skin. You know, and not, depending on chemicals like to to run our life, you know so you know in terms of even with us as having natural hair, we don't have to depend on chemicals for our hair. To be great, you know i, my group, i teach them how to make shampoo conditioner, leaving they're all moisture. You know for those of those who just don't want to then it's on our website, but i i'm just saying: we've got to go back to those days where it's you know or actually mimic what the people in like the village in africa do or people who Can'T afford to go to cosmetic shops, what do they do? How do they wash their hands? Do you think they're going to pay 10 pound for a bottle of shampoo hell? No, you know, but but their hair is healthy um and they use all different things. Yeah yeah, so i'm saying and and they're they're healthy that they're living you know they just you know, haven't got much money but they're they what you know they they use different oils and, and all that kind of thing it's not that oh yeah we're gon na Go up to this and we're gon na have a choice of what bottle looks good next to my couch or whatever it's it's kind of. Let'S go back to roots, let's go back to roots and get in your community of women and saying right, i'm making some moisture. Just like your friend now i'm making some moisture and i'm going to make 10 pots um. You know either you're all clubbing or we'll. Let'S get back to that community spiritual right, okay, um, making our own shampoos using like aloe vera, simple aloe vera, because people think that we have to have shampoo and it has to sud, and it has to no, because we don't want to strip the hair. So we've got the certain things that we've got to unlearn and saying right: okay, this is the right way, um of how we should do it. It'S all in the book doing your own shampoo, it's all in the book there right from amazon, and that is where i bought. I bought a copy for myself. I bought a copy for my mother and i will be buying other copies to share with people. And it's funny that you should say that when we're washing our hair, because we are again when we watch the adverts and they're in the shower and they're doing their hair and it's all studding up we're thinking, that's the sign of clean hair, because it's got all The grease out, but to your point, we're stripping it our hair of our natural oils and because i must admit, i only use all natural things in my hair now the hair or that i use is one of your recipes. I must have yes yeah. I that religiously, i use it on my mom's hair and even as you're saying about aloe vera for a few for a couple years now, as long as i've been natural, i should say: i've actually been using aloe vera on my hair, because my mom has this Huge honest thing: this thing is so nice there, oh, my god, you've got this huge aloe vera plant to the point where it's actually sprouted babies and she's, just giving them away giving them away. Listen if it's overgrown as the more she gives away, is the more they grow back, and so we get the lead, and we do we scoop out. I, in fact, yesterday before i washed my hair, i scooped out some of the gel. The inside of the aloe vera leaves, and i just blended it into a liquid and i just sprayed it onto it. That'S it but put a plastic cap on my hair for a couple of hours. While i was because, thank you know we're working from home at the moment.